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How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:40 pm
by HawkeEye
Does anyone know the last time the Top 100, or Hit List 40, or Hot 50 lists were updated?

And who governs these lists?

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:52 pm
by vampicker
The authors of the respective books and no one else

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:21 am
by RogerB
These lists are individual productions.

If several people are trying to invigorate a hobby niche, they should cooperate to identify and publicize the most accessible, and interesting varieties. That is, overly personalized lists can be fine for advanced users, but detrimental to attracting new participants.

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:43 am
by HawkeEye
Interesting because I think we blindly accept these lists as time tested and fact. I know I have my thoughts about the desirability and rarity of coins.

Maybe this is good food for thought since no group knows Morgan VAMs better and perhaps our leaders should help define those lists. I worry about any list that is say a Top xxx VAMs and it is a static list. There are too many discoveries for the lists to remain static.

I think I would consider a list made by experts with no personal incentive to be as valid or more valid.

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:06 am
by vampicker
It's worth remembering that the Top 100 book saved a dying field from yet another death.

And in a shameless plug, there is an annual list by someone within the hobby who isn't trying to sell the pieces selected. It's been pretty well received by the people that follow it as a registry set on the SSDC site. Last year got postponed, so two years drop on Friday at VAM Thing.

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:03 am
by VamHelsing
I also believe there is a WOW! list... :D Just focused on cool VAMs

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:50 am
by messydesk
One change was made to the Top 100 when it was determined that one of the coins didn't exist. The 78 VAM 11 was replaced by the 78 VAM 14.11. The only other changes that are made to the Top 100, Hot 50, and Hit List 40 VAMs are made when it is discovered that more than one VAM has the same "money side" (e.g., 1900 VAMs 11 and 24, 1892-S VAMs 2 and 7). The authors have indicated that those coins will also count for those lists.

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:21 am
by HawkeEye
Well I would probably pay more attention to a VAMworld Top 100/50/40/Hot based on the experience level here. Not that the authors of the other lists are not knowledgeable, but they are selling a product and perpetuating the list and reputations is a factor.

Someone, probably JB, compiled the List of Lists. But buried within this web site and its members is probably a list that would supersede any existing list.

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:07 am
by blh74
I would like to see an annual list of "New Discoveries and Revisions".

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:30 am
by morganman
:popcorn: This list stuff is bound to happen -good/bad
or indifferent, with a setup like this, by the people
for the people. IMHO- This list deal also ties in
with NO decent pricing model/list for our Vams,
that helps confuse all us members, especially
newer members. Its quite a mess and one of my
strong suggestions to fix asap. ASH???

Like Michael Fey it seems our SSDC president
has went kinda inactive, which is expected with
all the time & work ASH has provided free of
charge over many yrs. Now a select few members
like JB carry a big tourch to try and keep things
going. Kudos JB- and the few here who really
give of themselves for sometimes a thankless job
I personally am thankfull for the members here
who work to keep up with necessary operations
as i would have no clue how or what to do

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:37 pm
by messydesk
blh74 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:07 am
I would like to see an annual list of "New Discoveries and Revisions".
Leroy had been putting such a list of every year up until 2019. I have the information to go through November 3, 2021, after receiving his records, but it's organized in such a way as to make it easy to generate a list. I think he would go through all the letters he wrote every year and then copy the information to the new VAM supplement.

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:10 am
by blh74
messydesk wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:37 pm
blh74 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:07 am
I would like to see an annual list of "New Discoveries and Revisions".
Leroy had been putting such a list of every year up until 2019. I have the information to go through November 3, 2021, after receiving his records, but it's organized in such a way as to make it easy to generate a list. I think he would go through all the letters he wrote every year and then copy the information to the new VAM supplement.
Thanks for the answer. Would that be available here on VAMWorld?

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:24 am
by morganman
:popcorn: I seem to notice how some members here
get real defensive concerning their lists
developed here while others keep open
minded and truly contribute unbiased
opinions/help, which really is a testiment
to their gentle help orientated personality

Not to thow stones, just a observation,
of which can be found in most organizations/
groups/associations etc. Great post of which
i believe good outcome will result

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:18 pm
by HawkeEye
I think getting Leroy's perspective on new or popular VAMs would be welcomed information. His perspective on how our hobby evolved is unique, and he has more knowledge than any of us.

I have a feeling that if we were to vote on the current 100/50/40/Hot lists 80%+- would probably not change. But to keep our hobby current and relevant updates need to happen on some predictable cycle. Otherwise, new discoveries are never or rarely weighed against traditional lists.

I personally think there should be a VAMworld or SSDC set of lists reflecting the opinions and expertise of this group. There is no one or group giving more thought and discussion to the topic of VAMs than this group. Eventually our research will begin to influence the other lists either directly or indirectly.

Before anyone asks I would consider Leroy to be a part of this group for sure.

Re: How static is static, how permanent is permanent?

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:48 pm
by RogerB
From the perspective of an outsider, but one who feels there is much growth potential in your specialty....

With a couple of exceptions, I read the above posts as excuses for not making changes to simplify and restructure your specialty. Yet, without changing to improve structure and accessibility, collecting by VAM variety has limited opportunity to attract and retain new collectors.

Try going back to the original publications - or maybe before publication to Mr. Van Allen's notes. What were they attempting to do, and how were they organizing the information? Can variety lists be constructed according to ease of viewing (regardless of "rarity"); is there a possible sequence from "Easy" to more "Difficult?" Can variety lists be compiled based on confirmed cause? Can coins with common clashes (such as "V-clash next to rev right wing) be more widely included? (These are very easy to see and might be the primary reason for most Morgan dollar variety questions.)

Obviously, active VAM participants have to govern their own specialty. I merely urge all of you to open yourselves for meaningful changes. RWB