1887 Potenial Vam 1B

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Murph043
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1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by Murph043 » Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:59 pm

First off thanks for the add!!

Been collecting morgans (junk silver/bullion) for the better part of 20 years and more recently have been focusing on just morgans and Vams in particular. I Just bought this 1887 Morgan at a coin auction for 130 bucks and what caught my eye when looking at it was the die clashes. I did some research before bidding and it appeared to be a vam 1B, so I bought it. It is graded by PCI ( I know, I know) at MS 65.

Curious your thoughts on it, I know it won't grade at a 65 through PCGS or NGC but even at a 63/64 it could be valuable as a Vam 1B...
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lured_in_again
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by lured_in_again » Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:11 pm

Take a look @ VAM 3a, looks like the T clash possibly http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 7-P_VAM-3A

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messydesk
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by messydesk » Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:14 pm

Sorry, but you don't have VAM 1B. VAM 1B has a fairly strong E clash under the tail feathers. You also circle some peripheral die cracks, and these would match those pictured on the 87 VAM 1B page exactly, but they don't. Your coin is clashed, and it appears to have a partial 't' behind Liberty's lower hair in an area known as the "hair vee." The date is also in the near position. This is a fairly common, yet popular clashed die. You should be able to find it here fairly quickly.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

Vam-mysterio
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by Vam-mysterio » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:13 pm

You have a clashed near date 1887 vam
Sorry ,
close but,
No Cigar there

Murph043
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by Murph043 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:19 pm

If you look at America on the reverse, you can see the M and E are DD and you can make out a few other letters in America and other sections that are Doubled. Can't find any Vam that matches that.



lured_in_again wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:11 pm
Take a look @ VAM 3a, looks like the T clash possibly http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 7-P_VAM-3A

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ljs123
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by ljs123 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:30 pm

lured_in_again wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:11 pm
Take a look @ VAM 3a, looks like the T clash possibly http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 7-P_VAM-3A
Good call on the VAM-3A Jon.
:)

Tekkie1
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by Tekkie1 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:08 pm

VAM-3A


Murph043
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by Murph043 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:08 pm

Just got the coin, took some pictures with my coin microscope. Does it look like a partial E? I also don't see a line in the wing. Die clash at her mouth....
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Unc90o
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by Unc90o » Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:12 pm

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... ashed_dies

Based on the rotation, the marking you pointed out is impossible to be part of the "E".
Imo is just a scuffed.

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ljs123
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by ljs123 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:29 pm

Murph043 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:08 pm
Just got the coin, took some pictures with my coin microscope. Does it look like a partial E? I also don't see a line in the wing. Die clash at her mouth....
I know that you would like your coin to be a 1B, but I'm sorry to repeat that it is not.
You just gave us more proof that our attribution that it is not a VAM-1B, but instead is a 3A is correct.

First, you mention the lip clash. Please look at the VAM-1B and 3A pages.
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 7-P_VAM-1B
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 7-P_VAM-3A
Do you see the lip clash on the 1B page?
Don't you see the same lip clash on the 3A page?

Second, you asked "Does it look like a partial E?" The photo you show of the lower tail and the field below the tail does not show any partial E at all. There is no E there. What I do see is a contact mark that is also shown on the tail.

Third, you said "I also don't see a line in the wing." As I pointed out, your coin shows contact. The wing is not in the best of shape and it is not difficult to hide that line.
What do I see?
I see the part of the line in the correct spot between the wing and the body of the eagle.

What do I not see? I do not see a close up photo of the obverse hair vee. That photo would confirm what we can see on your previous obverse photos. You have the clashed t that is listed as VAM-3A.
The question now is, do you have an EDS 3A or a LDS 3A? Please show us a close up photo of the hair vee so we will all be able to see clearly.

I am sorry that you do not have a VAM-1B. But keep looking. The hunt is part of the FUN of VAMming.
Best of luck hunting in 2022.

Murph043
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by Murph043 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:04 pm

Sorry not trying to be a pain, just trying to learn. I love Vams and errors and just want to be clear about what I'm seeing vs what it actually is. I really appreciate all of your feedback.

-Murph
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ljs123
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by ljs123 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:23 pm

Murph043 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:04 pm
Sorry not trying to be a pain, just trying to learn. I love Vams and errors and just want to be clear about what I'm seeing vs what it actually is. I really appreciate all of your feedback.

-Murph
You're not a pain at all.
I speak plainly. Don't read anything into it.
We are happy to help.
We are glad that you are here and asking questions.
Keep asking questions.
Do you see the clashed t?

Murph043
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by Murph043 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:27 pm

I can see the clashed T.

Tekkie1
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by Tekkie1 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:03 pm

Glad you are able to see the "T" and verify you have a VAM-3A.

I can't speak for anyone here but I have also been guilty in seeing what my mind wants me to see...even if it's not there.
Faint clashed "E's" in particular.
83-O 22A
87-P 1B
and a real booger, 80-P 33A come to mind.

You'll get it eventually, no one gets it right in the beginning.

Vam-mysterio
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by Vam-mysterio » Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:35 pm

Keep in mind
Chances are
You are going to find an 1887 vam 1B
In circ grade ,
An ms vam 1B
Is an extreme rarity and
Almost impossible to find!

JASONKFLO
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Re: 1887 Potenial Vam 1B

Post by JASONKFLO » Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:40 pm

Tekkie1 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:03 pm
Glad you are able to see the "T" and verify you have a VAM-3A.

I can't speak for anyone here but I have also been guilty in seeing what my mind wants me to see...even if it's not there.
Faint clashed "E's" in particular.
83-O 22A
87-P 1B
and a real booger, 80-P 33A come to mind.

You'll get it eventually, no one gets it right in the beginning.
I have bought a few coins I thought I saw 33 or 33a clashing on bad pics only to get coins with no clashing haha
Jason Floyd
I climb Mountains , Grow Bamboo and like Coins

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