Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S (Updated with LVA Letter and Plate Photos)

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Raybob15239
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Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S (Updated with LVA Letter and Plate Photos)

Post by Raybob15239 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:50 pm

Some interesting stuff on a 23-S that I can't match up to anything existing. Coin was clashed and heavily polished. There are significant file lines in the space between the bun and the head, all around the bun and into the Y, and on the reverse around the eagle's head and shoulders and into the motto. IBERTY appears doubled, but it looks like machine doubling. There appears to be a small break in the hair, and the Y appears to have been polished off, but both might be PMD.

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Is any of this listable? (Been 8 years since I've submitted to Leroy, so I am a little rusty on what is listable and what is die poop.
Last edited by Raybob15239 on Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Raybob15239
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Re: Darkside Help, Please.

Post by Raybob15239 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:51 pm

Here's the doubling on the BERT. Looks like machine doubling, but I'm rusty on this.
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Re: Darkside Help, Please.

Post by messydesk » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:37 pm

The letters are machine doubled. It looks like there's pretty strong clashing. Perhaps @davidkclose will chime in here, since he's studied 23-S more than anyone else.

As for what's listable and what's die poop, that's a bit of a blurred line, as there have been things listed that are arguably die poop.
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Raybob15239
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Re: Darkside Help, Please.

Post by Raybob15239 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:21 pm

Reverse has been heavily polished as well. Certain elements are gone as a result.

Left shoulder of eagle has been heavily polished. Lots of file lines through the rays into the motto.
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Shoulder spikes have been filed away along with the tip of the ray that should extend to the base of the N
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Hair curl appears above O in DOLLAR
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Area by the tail has been heavily polished to the point where the third ray, which should extend through the N, has been polished away, along with parts of the 4th and 5th rays.
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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by Raybob15239 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:58 pm

@colwillys , any thoughts on this one?
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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by Raybob15239 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:52 pm

@davidkclose Close, any thoughts?
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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by davidkclose » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:54 pm

First of all, there are quite a few clashed & polished dies listed for 1923S. However, your coin has what appears to be a die break in the hair (photo 2nd from top) which is not listed, but should be listable. If this turns out to be as it appears, nice pickup!

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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by Raybob15239 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:56 pm

Thank you!
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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by colwillys » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:33 pm

Just get in from play with my 4 1941 Willys ( cars ) ..

I gave it some thought 1923-S VAM 1BM .

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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by VernP » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:52 am

Can you post a pic of the area in front of the forehead ?

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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by davidkclose » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:01 am

Does your coin have the die crack at date of VAM 1BM?

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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by Raybob15239 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:09 am

No die cracks at all.
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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by Raybob15239 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:16 am

Best I can do.

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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by Raybob15239 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:25 am

Hair curl clashes don't match 1 BM. Mintmark seems different. Obverse is different as well. Clash at the top of the hair doesn't match. The clash at the jaw/neck on 1BM is right at the juncture of the neck and jaw. On my coin, it is further out on the jaw. I am pretty sure that it is not 1BM.
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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by vamsterdam » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:24 pm

Great find. Looks like she is due for a trip to Leroy. Hopefully you can find a couple more to send with it to make it worth yours and his time(he charges $15 for 1,2, or 3 coins).

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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by Raybob15239 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:45 pm

It's going on a trip to Sidney. It will, unfortunately, be travelling alone. I purchased it about 5 or 6 years ago when I was killing time at a shopping center and went into a B&M I had never been to before. I think I paid $22 for it. I picked it up because I saw something on the coin that looked promising until I got it home and it failed the toothpick test. I just threw it in a drawer and didn't look any further at it until this month when I decided to pull it out and try to figure out what it was. It's the only coin I've bought since late 2010, so I really don't have anything else to send with it. :oops:
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Re: Darkside Help, Please. Clashed 1923-S

Post by Raybob15239 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:00 pm

Just a follow up on this for the sake of posterity. A new thread was previously opened announcing the new VAM, but I wanted to make sure that this thread also included the new VAM designation in case anyone is looking at it in the future. The coin came back as New VAM 1FF.
LVA Letter 11-6-2018 (New 1923-S VAM 1FF).jpg
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1923-S VAM 1FF Heavy Die File Lines (Eagle's Back).jpg
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1923-S VAM 1FF Heavy Die File Lines Reverse (close-up).jpg
1923-S VAM 1FF Heavy Die File Lines Reverse (close-up).jpg (118.9 KiB) Viewed 2573 times
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