1883-o proof like?

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Frosty7484
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1883-o proof like?

Post by Frosty7484 » Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:35 pm

Hey merry Christmas everyone, first time poster, about 6 months ago an auction house lost part of my order so they sent me this 1883-o Morgan silver dollar, I put it up forgot all about it until I recently received 3 more and decided to look into it because of the strike, luster and lack of Marks, it is a beautiful coin for being almost 140yrs old hopefully I did all this right thanks in advance very gratefulImageImage
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... VlAsiBPY4E

DHalladay
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Location: Boise, ID area

Re: 1883-o proof like?

Post by DHalladay » Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:47 pm

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that coin is not even remotely close to being prooflike, and the alternating diagonal scratches on the right side of the obverse are damage... what looks to me like intentional graffiti done by someone with a sharp-pointed tool. :(
When in doubt... don't.

Tekkie1
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Re: 1883-o proof like?

Post by Tekkie1 » Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:50 pm

I just saw it and I was going to say the same thing Dennis.

That Morgan looks beat up from the feet up.
A "X" on the cheek to top it off.

Sorry to be blunt but...

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Kurt28
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Re: 1883-o proof like?

Post by Kurt28 » Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:55 am

Be of good cheer Frosty, you are getting a free education from a field of educated and experienced experts.
The loss of a small investment is trivial compared to what you stand to gain.
Tell me where I could get a team of world class Lawyers or Doctors to help me solve problems - for free.
Welcome aboard. Stay with us and continue to share, it will enrich your life.

Frosty7484
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Re: 1883-o proof like?

Post by Frosty7484 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:10 am

Screenshot_20211228-190915_Chrome.jpg
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Really, oh I appreciate it a good education as I said I'm new I am not the type to let pride get in the way and when I was actually looking at the proof coins from the same year they have that Mark behind her head that zigzag, now I may be wrong about that I just assumed not say anything cuz the experts would know, and I still may be wrong I'm very humble and I appreciate the response an input very grateful but it also don't take an expert to tell that a coin doesn't look good, included a picture so the experts can examine the proof coin, and whether I'm wrong or right you don't crack jokes when someone because they might not know what you know but again I appreciate your response an input... ://drive.google.com/file/d/1rntEoPbC4Y3q3bsFIbm6nI12Eoe4fz8f/view?usp=drivesdk[/img]

Frosty7484
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Re: 1883-o proof like?

Post by Frosty7484 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:31 am

And just for educational purposes only on the top of her cheek it's a die Clash now maybe my photos didn't show it well enough but those are stars and again the same thing I see on the the branch minted proof, obviously they're rare, and finding one is next to Impossible but that don't mean it is impossible and maybe actually just educate on why it isn't or even to say I don't know nothing wrong with not knowing hope you guys have a great New Year =0]Screenshot_20211228-191804_Gallery.jpg[/attachment]
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Tekkie1
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Re: 1883-o proof like?

Post by Tekkie1 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:10 am

Hello Frosty.
Welcome.

I am a nobody on this site much less an expert or professional.
But here's my humble 2 cents worth on your coin and stars die clash theory.

First, imagine how "far off" the dies would have to be in order for a "Star" to clash on or above the cheek area that you suggest? And for it to happen "multiple times"? I just can't see it happening. I could darn sure be wrong though.

Lastly, I would sure welcome the idea that a Morgan pressing a star against another Morgan's cheek with severe pressure mind you, could possibly make a "star " indenture but this would not be from dies clashing, it would be PMD.
Then again, what do I know.

Hope it gets figured out for you.

RogerB
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Re: 1883-o proof like?

Post by RogerB » Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:10 pm

Frosty7484 wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:10 am
Screenshot_20211228-190915_Chrome.jpgReally, oh I appreciate it a good education as I said I'm new I am not the type to let pride get in the way and when I was actually looking at the proof coins from the same year they have that Mark behind her head that zigzag, now I may be wrong about that I just assumed not say anything cuz the experts would know, and I still may be wrong I'm very humble and I appreciate the response an input very grateful but it also don't take an expert to tell that a coin doesn't look good, included a picture so the experts can examine the proof coin, and whether I'm wrong or right you don't crack jokes when someone because they might not know what you know but again I appreciate your response an input... ://drive.google.com/file/d/1rntEoPbC4Y3q3bsFIbm6nI12Eoe4fz8f/view?usp=drivesdk[/img]
Sorry, that's not a "proof" 1883-O. Only Philadelphia had equipment to make proof coins. If -- a big IF -- it has ALL the characteristics of an authentic 1883 proof dollar, then it was made at Philadelphia from polished, mintmarked dies.

Mediocrates007
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Re: 1883-o proof like?

Post by Mediocrates007 » Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:33 am

RogerB wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:10 pm
Frosty7484 wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:10 am
Screenshot_20211228-190915_Chrome.jpgReally, oh I appreciate it a good education as I said I'm new I am not the type to let pride get in the way and when I was actually looking at the proof coins from the same year they have that Mark behind her head that zigzag, now I may be wrong about that I just assumed not say anything cuz the experts would know, and I still may be wrong I'm very humble and I appreciate the response an input very grateful but it also don't take an expert to tell that a coin doesn't look good, included a picture so the experts can examine the proof coin, and whether I'm wrong or right you don't crack jokes when someone because they might not know what you know but again I appreciate your response an input... ://drive.google.com/file/d/1rntEoPbC4Y3q3bsFIbm6nI12Eoe4fz8f/view?usp=drivesdk[/img]
Sorry, that's not a "proof" 1883-O. Only Philadelphia had equipment to make proof coins. If -- a big IF -- it has ALL the characteristics of an authentic 1883 proof dollar, then it was made at Philadelphia from polished, mintmarked dies.
According to the encyclopedia, there are a few years of branch-mint proofs, 1883-O reported 12 branch proofs with 2 known.

RogerB
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Re: 1883-o proof like?

Post by RogerB » Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:47 pm

The "encyclopedia" is wrong. This is old Breen-related garbage and not based on fact. It's from the discredited school of "it looks like, so it must be" assumption.

All proofs were made on a large screw-type press (aka, lever press or fly press)used for medals. Only the Philadelphia Mint had one. The characteristics of a legitimate proof differ from a coin - no matter how shiny - made on a toggle press. Until a few years ago, little was actually known about the details of equipment and how that affected the final coin.

Any mintmarked coin with superficial "proof surfaces" must also conform to ALL other characteristics of a legitimate Philadelphia proof of the same year. In fact, if an 1883-O shiny dollar coin is completely consistent with an 1883 proof dollar, then that is absolute proof that it was made in Philadelphia - the only place where the equipment was available.

[Did not intend to divert the message thread.]

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raynat3
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Re: 1883-o proof like?

Post by raynat3 » Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:21 pm

Frosty the coin you show appears to be shinny from circulation and possibly improper cleaning. As far as a star clash on the forehead it appears more like hits on the coin post mint that resembles a star. I’m not sure of your knowledge of the minting process, the gentleman that responded previously, Roger, has written several books, one of which explains that process “From Mine to Mint”. This site explains a lot also. The raised parts of the coin in your hand are incuse or impressed on the die. So on the die that clash, the star and forehead are both incuse, not raised. Imagine how hard that would be for the two die to clash and leave something in the incuse areas of the die, in addition to what Trekkie said about location. Also here is a question for you: if a star was to clash anywhere, would it be raised or incuse on the coin?

Lastly the die pair that was used on the Eliasberg 83-O BM Proof is actually the die pair used in VAM-19 which can be found fairly easily as business strikes, sometimes in PL condition.

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