Early Scarface Auction Price

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lioncutter
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Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by lioncutter » Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:39 pm

This was not my coin but I wish it was. An PCGS MS 63 Early Die State went for $3,360 at Heritage Auction last night. These die states are easily attainable at a much lower price. ($100-300 range) The winner will find out one day that it is worth 10% of what he or she paid for it. SMH
https://coins.ha.com/itm/morgan-dollars ... ots-101116
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vamnuke
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by vamnuke » Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:42 pm

:?

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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by JASONKFLO » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:02 am

Ouch
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DHalladay
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by DHalladay » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:53 am

It was the most profoundly absurd sales result in the entire auction – and a continuation of what I regard as a madness trend that began in September this year. Look at what two other coins in the auction sold for, compared to $3,360 for what is really a $125 coin:

-- The PCGS AU53 VAM 14.15 sold for $3,120
-- The PCGS AU55 VAM 44A sold for $2,640

Live bidding for the EDS VAM 1B (an H2 to my eye, the most common stage in the Harrison series) started at $130. Forty-nine live bids followed, including three cut bids that showed at least three bidders were involved.

So far in 2021 I have entered 56 sales for EDS VAM 1Bs into my database. Here’s a list of them, arranged from January to December so you can see the price absurdity that has taken off:

1888-O 1B EDS 62+ PCGS Jan-21 GC $100
1888-O 1B H2 62 ANACS Jan-21 E $145
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Feb-21 E $52
1888-O 1B EDS 63 ANACS Feb-21 E $139
1888-O 1B EDS 63 ANACS Feb-21 E $139
1888-O 1B EDS 63 ANACS Feb-21 E $139
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Feb-21 E $99
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Feb-21 E $99
1888-O 1B EDS 62 ANACS Feb-21 E $99
1888-O 1B EDS 62 ANACS Feb-21 E $99
1888-O 1B EDS 62 ANACS Feb-21 E $99
1888-O 1B EDS 62 ANACS Feb-21 E $99
1888-O 1B EDS 62 NGC Feb-21 E $125
1888-O 1B EDS 61 NGC Feb-21 E $129
1888-O 1B H2 63 PCGS Mar-21 E $120
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Mar-21 E $200
1888-O 1B EDS 62 NGC Mar-21 E $220
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Apr-21 E $108
1888-O 1B EDS 63 NGC Apr-21 E $185
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Apr-21 GC $80
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Apr-21 GC $128
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS May-21 E $199
1888-O 1B EDS 62 NGC May-21 E $250
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Jun-21 E $113
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Jun-21 E $167
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Jun-21 E $219
1888-O 1B H2 62 PCGS Jun-21 E $110
1888-O 1B EDS 61 PCGS Jun-21 E $245
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Jul-21 E $105
1888-O 1B H2 62 PCGS Jul-21 E $105
1888-O 1B EDS 63+ PCGS Aug-21 E $267
1888-O 1B H2 63 PCGS Aug-21 E $96
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Aug-21 E $110
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Aug-21 E $120
1888-O 1B H2 63 ANACS Sep-21 H $2,640
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Sep-21 E $3,000
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Sep-21 E $190
1888-O 1B H2 62 raw Sep-21 E $295
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Sep-21 H $900
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Sep-21 H $930
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Sep-21 H $960
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Sep-21 H $960
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Sep-21 H $1,170
1888-O 1B EDS 61 NGC Sep-21 E $199
1888-O 1B EDS 58 raw Sep-21 E $154
1888-O 1B EDS 64 PCGS Oct-21 E $375
1888-O 1B H2 64 NGC Oct-21 E $395
1888-O 1B H2 64 NGC Oct-21 E $490
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Oct-21 E $199
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Oct-21 E $199
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Oct-21 E $225
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Oct-21 E $225
1888-O 1B EDS 63 PCGS Oct-21 E $270
1888-O 1B H2 63 PCGS Oct-21 E $275
1888-O 1B EDS 62 PCGS Nov-21 E $69
1888-O 1B H2 63 PCGS Dec-21 H $3,360

By comparison, I have seen only 7 sales this year for REAL Scarfaces (H8, H9 or H10). Since 2009 there have been a total of only 99 REAL Scarface sales.

The most disturbing part of last night’s $3,360 sale is that it was more than what 11 certified REAL Scarfaces have sold for since 2009, in grades of MS60 to MS63.
Last edited by DHalladay on Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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keydates
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by keydates » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:58 am

I almost think a buyer like this does not know the difference.
They see Scarface and think it is a good buy.
Larry

iceman
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by iceman » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:06 pm

Hi ALL
I was surprised the 1879S rev 78 VAM 25 in PCGS MS62 went for 4.5K in that auction .
I do think the 44A went way low , and Im not sure if the 14.15 was low or high at 3.12K or just a fair price .

But Yep that Scarface was just a WTF on the bidding , someone doesnt understand VAM's on that bidding and just saw Scarface and BID high . This is the 2nd Heritage Auction that
Scarfaces went for HUGE $ and not a High Harrison stage . LOL

PS: What do you think the 14.15 value is ? Hard Vam in that grade , history shows about 2.5Kish .

John

DHalladay
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by DHalladay » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:59 pm

John:

14.15 is seldom sold in any grade, and very rarely above XF. Coins in lower grades have sold for more in past years. Here is everything I have:
1878 8TF 14.15 62 graf. PCGS Aug-16 H $494
1878 8TF 14.15 53 PCGS Dec-21 H $3,120
1878 8TF 14.15 50 PCGS Nov-08 VQ $3,999
1878 8TF 14.15 50 PCGS Jul-10 PP $2,700
1878 8TF 14.15 50 PCGS Aug-21 E $1,745
1878 8TF 14.15 50 NGC Jan-15 H $1,410
1878 8TF 14.15 45 PCGS Mar-09 CS $4,500
1878 8TF 14.15 45 PCGS Sep-12 PP $3,500
1878 8TF 14.15 45 PCGS Mar-09 PP $3,000
1878 8TF 14.15 45 PCGS Dec-11 PP $2,500
1878 8TF 14.15 45 PCGS Oct-09 E $2,500
1878 8TF 14.15 45 PCGS Oct-10 PP $1,550
1878 8TF 14.15 45 PCGS Dec-10 TT $1,353
1878 8TF 14.15 45 PCGS Oct-20 H $1,200
1878 8TF 14.15 45 PCGS Aug-18 PP $1,200
1878 8TF 14.15 45 PCGS Sep-18 H $1,020
1878 8TF 14.15 40 SEGS May-18 E $425
1878 8TF 14.15 35 PCGS Jan-21 GC $876
1878 8TF 14.15 35 PCGS May-21 GC $710
1878 8TF 14.15 30 PCGS Oct-21 E $500
1878 8TF 14.15 30 PCGS Dec-13 H $470
1878 8TF 14.15 25 PCGS Aug-20 H $408
1878 8TF 14.15 25 ANACS Sep-17 E $260
1878 8TF 14.15 20 PCGS Jan-14 H $499
1878 8TF 14.15 15 PCGS Apr-11 E $700
1878 8TF 14.15 15 PCGS Feb-21 E $313
1878 8TF 14.15 8 PCGS Jun-21 E $445
When in doubt... don't.

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mark
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by mark » Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:04 pm

FYI, The 3k sale on ebay in September for the PCGS EDS never happened. Personal knowledge.

vamsterdam
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by vamsterdam » Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:20 pm

There was a dealer in Indianapolis that had a pcgs62 h2 for some ridiculously high price and when i tried to share with him that is was actually worth a fraction to f what he was asking, he kicked me off and f his table and told me he knows quite a bit about vams, and implied that I didn’t.

DHalladay
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by DHalladay » Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:28 pm

mark wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:04 pm
FYI, The 3k sale on ebay in September for the PCGS EDS never happened. Personal knowledge.

Thanks Mark. I will delete that one from my database.
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...kenny
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by ...kenny » Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:44 pm

for your records....eBay sales recently

115061976957

115061981746
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my.........Ahh........Uhmm........something, something, something..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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lioncutter
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by lioncutter » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:10 pm

What is amazing is you can go on ebay right now and buy the almost identical PCGS 1888 O VAM 1B Early Die State in MS 63 for $199.00. I just don't get it. (That coin is not mine either)
I may not be the best, but I do not know anyone better.

DHalladay
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by DHalladay » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:30 pm

...kenny wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:44 pm
for your records....eBay sales recently
115061976957
115061981746

Thanks Kenny. I added the first one, but I don't include details coins in the database (except for crazy-rare stuff).
When in doubt... don't.

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...kenny
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by ...kenny » Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:15 pm

no worries. most of my sales are based on 2015 VV price. i've had no issues selling VAMs at list or close to list...kenny
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my.........Ahh........Uhmm........something, something, something..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

morganman
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by morganman » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:26 pm

:popcorn: This post ties in exactly on my just posted SUN morning about
the dire need for decent price guide
Funny i did not see this post before writing my this am post
regarding needed pricing guide
lack of knowledge is a bad thing and in this type of instance
will only lead to negative vam issues if not corrected soon
If people get interested and have bucks to spend they need
to be properly informed to make good buying decisions, which
will put a positive spin on vams, not the messes like this one
:|

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HawkeEye
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by HawkeEye » Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:15 pm

There are some crazy things out there right now and I don't know if they are selling, but for sure there are lots of listings.

There is an 1881-O listed by a big eBay seller for $1,993.75 bragging it is a GEM BU graded coin.

Actually, it is a N92 Cleaned coin with uncirculated details. Just for fun I offered him $50 which is probably about right.

I think they try to catch Christmas shoppers looking for gifts for good old Dad who know nothing about coins.

There is some crazy stuff out there, and I am still on my NFT kick for Discovery VAMs
Deep in the woods of North Georgia

vamsterdam
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by vamsterdam » Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:35 pm

@HawkeEye NFT? what does that mean?

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HawkeEye
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Re: Early Scarface Auction Price

Post by HawkeEye » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:46 pm

Non-Fungible Token

https://www.investopedia.com/non-fungib ... ft-5115211

I think because Discovery Coins are by definition unique they would be candidates and would offer VAMers a chance to recoop their effort and costs, and make the hobby more visible and interesting.

Coins in notable lists (Top 100, Hot 50, etc.) would be most desirable because of their long standing and desirability. Coins not on those lists would be less desirable and we would need a much more stringent certification process so VAMs don't get displaced once certified because they would become worthless as NFTs.

A Discovery coin certified by LVA and JB, and sealed in addition to a TPG slabbing could carry a lot of weight. This would also apply outside the Morgan world and why the TPGs have not seized on this opportunity is beyond me.
Deep in the woods of North Georgia

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