1883-S Morgan VAM-13 What does "Empty Nest" mean?

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Dusty Myles
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1883-S Morgan VAM-13 What does "Empty Nest" mean?

Post by Dusty Myles » Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:46 pm

I wonder what the comment means for VAM-13. Does "Empty Nest" mean that there are no know examples?

1883-S VAM-13 S Set Left & Tilted Left
Discovery 2016 By Wali M.
Comments: EMPTY NEST

My coin is S set left, polished wing gap, and die chip between loops of first 8 right side.

fogie
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Re: 1883-S Morgan VAM-13 What does "Empty Nest" mean?

Post by fogie » Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:28 am

Empty nest does mean no known examples at this time...

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madbirder
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Re: 1883-S Morgan VAM-13 What does "Empty Nest" mean?

Post by madbirder » Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:17 pm

I'm confused, not that that should come as a shock :lol: , but how can we have no known examples of a VAM that was discovered? Isn't the discovery a known example?

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Re: 1883-S Morgan VAM-13 What does "Empty Nest" mean?

Post by fogie » Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:16 pm

Confusion understood. By "known" I meant that it is not known by the SSDC registry, there are none registered and all attempts to verify that the "VAM" was added to the catalogue correctly have been in vain. It is (unfortunately) quite common that a coin that was listed was done so in such a way that when LVA saw another example of the exact same die pair - he did not recognize it and he gave the second example a new VAM number - hence the redundant listings. We know this has happened right up thru the end of LVA's listings. With modern photographic toys and some seriously dedicated folks playing the game these days we hope to address this problem.

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messydesk
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Re: 1883-S Morgan VAM-13 What does "Empty Nest" mean?

Post by messydesk » Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:23 pm

fogie wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:16 pm
With modern photographic toys and some seriously dedicated folks playing the game these days we hope to address this problem.
Indeed. Expect coins submitted for new discoveries to pop up here now and then for verification of things that are in the blind spots of the photos we have. This should improve the robustness of the catalog going forward. The other edge of that sword is that it will be more difficult to get new listings without presenting evidence that it's warranted, especially where minor die stages are concerned.

The best example of an empty nest in the catalog is probably 1878-S VAM 2.
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madbirder
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Re: 1883-S Morgan VAM-13 What does "Empty Nest" mean?

Post by madbirder » Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:58 pm

Gotcha! That makes sense. So where is the discovery coin of the 1878-S VAM 2? If it were found to have other features that made it a new VAM would that not mean that the VAM 2 would have been killed? or am I not reading how that works correctly.

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messydesk
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Re: 1883-S Morgan VAM-13 What does "Empty Nest" mean?

Post by messydesk » Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:25 am

madbirder wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:58 pm
Gotcha! That makes sense. So where is the discovery coin of the 1878-S VAM 2? If it were found to have other features that made it a new VAM would that not mean that the VAM 2 would have been killed? or am I not reading how that works correctly.
This is a coin that was cataloged as the VAM book was first being put together 50 years ago. I doubt the coin that was cataloged as VAM 2 could be traced today.
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