Page 1 of 1

1897-S VAM? Part 2

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:04 am
by keilg1
Following on from @madbirder's post (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5619&p=47949#p47949)

I, too, have an 1897-S near date that doesn't fully align with the 9 or 13 (for sure), but might be an LDS of the VAM-10, but I've not seen described what I'd think is a listable die break at the 1:

FCO:
Full obv.jpg
Full obv.jpg (200 KiB) Viewed 416 times

FCR:
Full rev.jpg
Full rev.jpg (209.35 KiB) Viewed 416 times

Near date die break 1 - affectionately called a 'warty one':
1897-S 6016 near date die break 1 #2.JPG
1897-S 6016 near date die break 1 #2.JPG (81.2 KiB) Viewed 416 times

Slightly tilted right MM:
1897-S 6016 near date MM #2.JPG
1897-S 6016 near date MM #2.JPG (93.56 KiB) Viewed 416 times

I also see cracks above ERI:
1897-S 6016 near date crack MERI.JPG
1897-S 6016 near date crack MERI.JPG (93.53 KiB) Viewed 416 times

Thoughts on what my variant might be?

Thanks,

Re: 1897-S VAM? Part 2

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:09 am
by keilg1
Oh, and I also see an interesting crack heading into the wreath leaves from the LL, as well as a scratch between the last L and the A:
1897-S 6016 near date rev LLA scratch and crack.jpg
1897-S 6016 near date rev LLA scratch and crack.jpg (179.32 KiB) Viewed 415 times

No other PUPs seen that match others described.

Re: 1897-S VAM? Part 2

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:23 am
by keilg1
Further inspection shows the pic on VAM-3 has an LL crack similar to mine, but is listed as a normal date. VAM-3A pictures don't show that reverse area but shows the date appears to be near - or the very far left of normal (I'd call it near). The right tilted S sounds like a match...

But mine definitely does not have the 3A break along the left wreath, and I don't seen the PUPs like the tick off the L of LIBERTY or the scratch off the upper cotton leaf shown on that page.

I doubt mine would be a MDS between the 3 and 3A or some variant, but this is possible?

Re: 1897-S VAM? Part 2

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:31 pm
by madbirder
I see what you are saying about the VAM-3 but your date seems to line up on the left edge of the 3rd denticle while the VAM-3A lines up in the gap between 2nd and 3rd by the look of it. Also does your 7 look tilted?

Re: 1897-S VAM? Part 2

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:11 pm
by fogie
Try 1897-S VAM-2. I have 3 and non of them have the die cracks seen on the VAMworld site but they all have the die polish line/gouges in the field at the neck/chin.

Re: 1897-S VAM? Part 2

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:06 pm
by keilg1
fogie wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:11 pm
Try 1897-S VAM-2. I have 3 and non of them have the die cracks seen on the VAMworld site but they all have the die polish line/gouges in the field at the neck/chin.
Thanks, @fogie. I've double checked and mine certainly is not the VAM-2 -- good catch on the other message by @madbirder.

Do you (or others? @messydesk?) think the break is listable?

Thanks again, all. Wishing everyone a grand Sunday afternoon...

Re: 1897-S VAM? Part 2

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:52 pm
by messydesk
The chip on the 1 is the most interesting thing about this one. @LateDateMorganGuy identified this as die pair 28 in his study, but noted that it was not a match to any specific VAM. I would describe it to Leroy as "Date slightly left within normal position, S mint mark set right, tilted right. Crack through top of date with chip on top of flag of 1." Leroy might decide it should be called VAM 3B, since Alan identified it as an uncataloged die pair in his study. Without the die study having been done, I'd probably just call it VAM 3.

Re: 1897-S VAM? Part 2

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:30 am
by fogie
interesting - The comment I made above was intended to be on a different page.....