Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

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HawkeEye
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Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by HawkeEye » Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:44 pm

This is a most interesting letter back from Leroy today confirming the existence of the VAM 1L and the die damage from a $10 Gold Eagle die. This is a unique discovery, apparently in all VAMdom!!!
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RogerRock
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by RogerRock » Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:57 pm

Absolutely Fascinating !! :shock:
Stage 3 TERMINAL DIE STATE SILVER DOLLAR EXPLORER

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Bigbub
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by Bigbub » Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:03 pm

Wow, what an intriguing piece of detective work. Denticle impressions have always fascinated me as the artifacts seem to be the result of sloppy work in the press room. I always wonder if the press men said "Oops", kept quiet, faced disciplinary action from superiors or didn't notice the end results at all.

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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by collectinsince65 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:05 pm

Simply mind blowing.......

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messydesk
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by messydesk » Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:45 pm

I still think it's occluded gas. There are markers visible in his pictures that are visible on VAM 8 without these lumps -- the scratch above the mint mark, and a couple in front of the ear. If we can get our hands on the VAM 1L discovery piece and poke it with a stick, this one would probably go away.
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by HawkeEye » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:56 pm

Therein lies the issue. I believe the discovery piece was sold thinking it was of no particular interest. Maybe we can track it down or maybe this is another that goes into the VAM mystery box. But we might make it worth someone's time to find it or confirm it with another.

Fortunately Leroy documented it with lots of photographs and we are not flying completely blind like the 81-O VAM 29.
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HawkeEye
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by HawkeEye » Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:03 pm

As an added note, the fact that we don't always agree on issues like this is a real plus. It sparks debate, research, and interest. let's hope we can relocate the discovery coin and examine it in more detail.
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by Unc90o » Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:06 pm

Truly amazing and unique.
Reminds me of 98o v20 as being another unique piece.
Very, very cool!

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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by PacificWR » Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:13 am

I agree with JB here, plus I would really like to see the mint records.

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HawkeEye
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by HawkeEye » Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:57 pm

Well the key is Brian and can he relocate the coin. Otherwise we are limited in our analysis to images.
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by vamnuke » Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:45 pm

😲

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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by HawkeEye » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:02 pm

This VAM is likely to spark some further debate before being resolved, especially if the Discovery Coin cannot be located. I am reminded of the discussion around the 1881-O VAM 29. "Just because you cannot find one doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

At JB's recommendation I pulled all 22 of my VAM 8 coins and compared them to the plate photos that Leroy supplied. To my surprise they seemed to fall into two categories based on his photo of the mint mark.
81o-1L-Raised-Dots1.jpg
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Just above the mint mark and dots there is a horizontal line that i take to be a polish line and not a light gouge. Of the 22 examples only 4 coins exhibited this feature. Three of the four were DMPL coins and the fourth an AU58 that I could tell had been a PL or DMPL coin before being circulated.

None of these four had the raised dots. So does that lend credibility to the planchet issue, or does it point to someone finding the clash and polishing it out (and the line) before moving on in production?
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by PacificWR » Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:15 am

I finished updating the VAM page.

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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by HawkeEye » Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:03 am

Thanks
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messydesk
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by messydesk » Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:13 pm

HawkeEye wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:02 pm
...
Just above the mint mark and dots there is a horizontal line that i take to be a polish line and not a light gouge. Of the 22 examples only 4 coins exhibited this feature. Three of the four were DMPL coins and the fourth an AU58 that I could tell had been a PL or DMPL coin before being circulated.

None of these four had the raised dots. So does that lend credibility to the planchet issue, or does it point to someone finding the clash and polishing it out (and the line) before moving on in production?
If there are dots on the die and they tried polishing them out, the horizontal die scratch, which would be shallower, would be disrupted and you'd see other evidence of polishing the die.
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by HawkeEye » Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:48 pm

I am going to look at these more later tonight, but I found a fifth coin, a MS60PL which is a rare bird in itself. It has the line, but a little more faint than the other four. There are five MS coins and at first glance I could not find signs of re-polishing, but it would not have taken much to polish out the line. The line could also just wear away from use, but perhaps not the clash.

Hopefully I can get into it more later.
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vamsterdam
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by vamsterdam » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:19 pm

This is seriously aggravating. I tried to prove that this was a denticle clash and was shot down repeatedly. I didn’t believe the “occluded gas” theory but i gave up. The coin sat in my box of vams until a few months ago and it got sold. I remember looking at it one last time and feeling sad that I couldn’t get it listed.

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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by crabscrape » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:26 pm

Its Going to be alright Brian!

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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by vampicker » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:44 pm

vamsterdam wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:19 pm
This is seriously aggravating. I tried to prove that this was a denticle clash and was shot down repeatedly. I didn’t believe the “occluded gas” theory but i gave up. The coin sat in my box of vams until a few months ago and it got sold. I remember looking at it one last time and feeling sad that I couldn’t get it listed.
I feel your pain, but I can't believe I get to ask the question. Did you try poking it with a stick?
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Re: Fresh Back From LVA on 1881-O VAM 1L

Post by vamsterdam » Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:28 pm

yes, i did try poking it with a stick. no movement, or "collapsing of bubbles."

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