1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

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ATLcollector
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1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ATLcollector » Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:39 pm

WOW! On the Reverse of this 1922-P Peace dollar there is a die break along the edge of the lower wing(see second photo). In addition, there are at least 20 additional die breaks (die chips or gouges?) on the field to the left of the eagle and at least 4 more on the eagle. (See photos 3, 4 and 5). All of the die breaks are raised, not incuse. I have checked the list on VAMworld and could not find anything like this listed for the 1922-P. Is this something Mr. Van Allen might want to examine?
This coin was among 60 silver investment coins acquired by my father from a precious metals broker years ago.
Thanks in advance for your comments!
I
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 2 with REV Die Breaks--cropped.jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 2 with REV Die Breaks--cropped.jpg (147.78 KiB) Viewed 1426 times
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 13 with REV Die Breaks--Wing Break--cropped.jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 13 with REV Die Breaks--Wing Break--cropped.jpg (194.37 KiB) Viewed 1426 times
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 9 with REV Die Breaks Lower Left and Center circled.jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 9 with REV Die Breaks Lower Left and Center circled.jpg (133.27 KiB) Viewed 1426 times
Attachments
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 6 with REV Die Breaks ---Left Middle Die Breaks Circled.jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 6 with REV Die Breaks ---Left Middle Die Breaks Circled.jpg (177.56 KiB) Viewed 1426 times
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 8 with REV Die Breaks Upper Left with circled breaks.jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 8 with REV Die Breaks Upper Left with circled breaks.jpg (178.27 KiB) Viewed 1426 times

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...kenny
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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ...kenny » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:00 pm

Welcome.......Sorry, but what you have circled is referred to as PMD(Post Mint damage)...kenny
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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by Longstrider » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:20 pm

I am going to take this opportunity to try to learn from. How are raised spots PMD? Thanks.🐍

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ATLcollector » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:38 pm

...kenny wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:00 pm
.Sorry, but what you have circled is referred to as PMD(Post Mint damage)...kenny
What about the die break on the wing? Is that PMD as well??

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ...kenny » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:41 pm

I don't see the die break, can you point it out? Strider, the raised part is the pushed metal around the dark areas he's circled...kenny
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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ...kenny » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:45 pm

Now, with that being said. This IS a clashed Peace dollar. Please post pics of OBV too!...kenny
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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ATLcollector » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:14 pm

I thought the 3rd photo I posted displaying the wing break was quite evident---but here it is again with the break circled. I am also posting an OBV view of the coin.
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 13 with REV Die Breaks--circled Wing Break--cropped .jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 13 with REV Die Breaks--circled Wing Break--cropped .jpg (167.67 KiB) Viewed 1408 times
1922-P Peace $1 -- OBV with REV Die Breaks.jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- OBV with REV Die Breaks.jpg (148.38 KiB) Viewed 1408 times

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ATLcollector » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:17 pm

I am no expert by any means and can only judge by what I am seeing with my own eyes and magnification. I have taken photos of magnified images of three of what appear to be die chips/gouges. Each is located in the field left of the eagle and very close to the eagle's wing. They are each raised and not incuse, and there does not appear to be a hit or strike to the coin next to each chip causing such a large amount of metal raised. So, I would think PMD can be ruled out.
I appreciate any and all comments/suggestions. Thanks!
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 14 with REV Die Breaks--die chip or gouge 1 (2).jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 14 with REV Die Breaks--die chip or gouge 1 (2).jpg (202.15 KiB) Viewed 1405 times
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 15 with REV Die Breaks--die chip or gouge 2 (2).jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 15 with REV Die Breaks--die chip or gouge 2 (2).jpg (214 KiB) Viewed 1405 times
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 16 with REV Die Breaks--die chip or gouge 3 (2).jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 16 with REV Die Breaks--die chip or gouge 3 (2).jpg (195.46 KiB) Viewed 1405 times
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 17 with REV Die Breaks--die chip or gouge 1,2 and 3 (2).jpg
1922-P Peace $1 -- REV 17 with REV Die Breaks--die chip or gouge 1,2 and 3 (2).jpg (75.47 KiB) Viewed 1405 times

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ...kenny » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:37 pm

I'll wait for others to chime in, but they look just like a divot to me...kenny
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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ATLcollector » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:09 pm

Kenny, what about the wing die break? Is that a divot, PMD, or a die break?

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by Longstrider » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:31 pm

Kenny. OK I get your point. Thanks, I didn't think of that.🐍

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ...kenny » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:10 pm

doesn't look like any die break I've seen before. doesn't mean I'm right either. keep looking for more input...kenny
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my.........Ahh........Uhmm........something, something, something..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ATLcollector » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:20 pm

...kenny wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:10 pm
doesn't look like any die break I've seen before. doesn't mean I'm right either. keep looking for more input...kenny
Thanks Kenny. Obviously, this would be a new listing never seen before. I've never seen it before either! So, that's why I am seeking advice whether to send it on in for attribution.
As for your comment about a "divot" on the coin, where do you see a divot? I would appreciate some specification in order to look at the image or images you are referencing, and to understand your comment.
Thanks!

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ...kenny » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:21 am

REV 14, 15 & 16...Does any part of that go below the surface of the field in which it lies? Can you put a toothpick tip into it?...kenny
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my.........Ahh........Uhmm........something, something, something..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ATLcollector » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:05 am

...kenny wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:21 am
REV 14, 15 & 16...Does any part of that go below the surface of the field in which it lies? Can you put a toothpick tip into it?...kenny
The answer is NO. All of these die chips/gouges are above the surface of the field in which they lie.

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by Tekkie1 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:08 am

I agree with it being PMD.
I can see where it looks like a "divot" and I can also see where it looks as if they're raised.
If in fact they are raised, (as you would know best because its in your hands)they appear to be droplets of Hot metal.
They appear to be of different color (like steel, etc.etc) than the silver it's imbedded into.
Regardless, I'm sticking with PMD.

I can't even imagine a Morgan escaping the mint in this dramatic fashion let alone with just this one being found in( for all practical purposes ) 100years.

Let's see what other members come up with.

Best of luck and "Welcome to the forum". :)

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ...kenny » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:18 am

Think of what would need to be done to a coining die, which is hardened to extreme tolorances to create what you are preposing. Someone would have to have access to the die and be able to gouge, repeatedly and randomley this die and 'not' be seen. If what you have is raised, I agree with the slag theory...kenny
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my.........Ahh........Uhmm........something, something, something..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ATLcollector » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:30 am

Thanks Tekkie 1 for your response. I am pleased to be able to join the forum.
1) Would you also address the first issue--whether you agree that there appears to be a die break on the wing of the Eagle?If the answer is yes, is the coin a candidate for attribution?
2)As for the numerous die chips/gouges which appear on this coin, you mention "hot metal" as being the possible cause of these raised images. The most likely situation where the coin is exposed to hot metal is during the minting process. Couldn't these be the result of metal disintegration which becomes loose during a later stage of the die, and then upon becoming loose becomes attached to the surface of the coin?
I would appreciate comments from you and all who have an opinion upon these issues relating to this coin.
Thanks!

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ATLcollector » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:42 am

...kenny wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:18 am
If what you have is raised, I agree with the slag theory...kenny
What do you mean by "slag theory?"

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Re: 1922-P Peace Dollar---Wing Die Break and numerous die chips/gouges?

Post by ...kenny » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:59 am

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my.........Ahh........Uhmm........something, something, something..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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