2021 Morgans Postponed

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HawkeEye
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2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by HawkeEye » Fri May 28, 2021 11:30 am

Just got a notice from the Mint that the rest of the Morgans are postponed due to the silver shortage

How can there be a silver shortage when the market price never moves up more than a few dollars?

Go figure!
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vamnuke
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by vamnuke » Fri May 28, 2021 12:26 pm

:popcorn:

DHalladay
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by DHalladay » Fri May 28, 2021 1:19 pm

Odd.
I'm signed up for all 3 remaining coins and I haven't received that notice... and I can't find anything on the Mint website, other than the remaining coins no longer appear on the list of product releases. :o
Last edited by DHalladay on Fri May 28, 2021 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by JASONKFLO » Fri May 28, 2021 1:23 pm

I saw the post , hopefully they are trying to figure out their website and make it so collectors can get it easier.
Seems like a simple fix. Open in up a day early to people with enrollment plans and limit to one each. Then open it up to all the next day. I would still like to see the limit lower than 10 . Maybe 2 of each.
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DHalladay
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by DHalladay » Fri May 28, 2021 1:28 pm

I found the official announcement someone posted over on the PCGS message board:


Dear Valued Customer,

The United States Mint is committed to providing the best possible online experience to its customers. The global silver shortage has driven demand for many of our bullion and numismatic products to record heights. This level of demand is felt most acutely by the Mint during the initial product release of numismatic items. Most recently in the pre-order window for 2021 Morgan Dollar with Carson City privy mark (21XC) and New Orleans privy mark (21XD), the extraordinary volume of web traffic caused significant numbers of Mint customers to experience website anomalies that resulted in their inability to complete transactions.

In the interest of properly rectifying the situation, the Mint is postponing the pre-order windows for the remaining 2021 Morgan and Peace silver dollars that were originally scheduled for June 1 (Morgan Dollars struck at Denver (21XG) and San Francisco (21XF)) and June 7 (Morgan Dollar struck at Philadelphia (21XE) and the Peace Dollar (21XH)). While inconvenient to many, this deliberate delay will give the Mint the time necessary to obtain web traffic management tools to enhance the user experience. As the demand for silver remains greater than the supply, the reality is such that not everyone will be able to purchase a coin. However, we are confident that during the postponement, we will be able to greatly improve on our ability to deliver the utmost positive U.S. Mint experience that our customers deserve. We will announce revised pre-order launch dates as soon as possible.

Thank you for a being a United States Mint customer
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Andy Hansen
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by Andy Hansen » Fri May 28, 2021 2:20 pm

Blah Blah Blah, they can't buy enough CHEAP silver to full fill their approved profit plan.

No rational business person would postpone $ten's of Millions in sales with, surely Great Margins.
An entrepreneur would figure it out.

It takes the competency of a government.

:roll:

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Longstrider
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by Longstrider » Fri May 28, 2021 2:28 pm

It looks to me as they are blaming the "silver shortage" as the are saying they need to improve "web traffic management". Hmmm. Who'ed of guessed? Everyone gets bumped multiple times before the terminal bump. Nothing new here.🐍

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messydesk
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by messydesk » Fri May 28, 2021 3:16 pm

They didn't want three consecutive weeks of furor over the way the sales were handled. Now it'll just be spread out more.
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HawkeEye
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by HawkeEye » Fri May 28, 2021 6:34 pm

I think I remember that they can only use domestically mined silver, and that might be tricky in a shortage.

Also, I haven't looked at this in years, but the gold and silver numbers are interesting.

https://usdebtclock.org/gold-precious-metals.html

Dollar to Gold ratio in 1913 $28.73, today $33,928

Dollar to Silver in 1913 $2.66, today $4,768

No devaluation in those numbers!

But the astounding number to me is the currency and credit derivatives which in 2000 were $90.6 trillion, today $621.9 trillion
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alefzero
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by alefzero » Sat May 29, 2021 2:16 am

I wonder if the EFTs are meeting the physical holding regulatory requirements. I bet nobody is auditing them now.

Stlcoin
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by Stlcoin » Sat May 29, 2021 3:53 am

HawkeEye wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 11:30 am
Just got a notice from the Mint that the rest of the Morgans are postponed due to the silver shortage

How can there be a silver shortage when the market price never moves up more than a few dollars?

Go figure!
From my understanding, by law, the U.S Mint procures it's Silver, Gold, Platinum & Palladium for the next fiscal year by contract on Oct. 1st then takes delivery the last week in November. This is the only procurement period and is based on averaging previous years usage for precious metal coins only. Previous years that have both low sales & minimal series productions impacts the need for the next year despite any anticipated programs. Last time this happened was in FY2008/2009 and resulted in the Mint scrubbing the 2009 SAE Proof. Also the Mint must have sufficient quantities dedicated & available for each coin program, otherwise they can not legally schedule production. This year the Mint, came up very short considering how many individual commemoratives are planned PLUS the variants of the 2021 Morgan & 2021 Peace as well as both the Type 1 & II SAE's and Multiple Facility Minted Proofs, won't be surprised if several Morgans get scrubbed at the last minute. But the high numbers struck this year will ensure the Mint will buy sufficient quantities for FY22 which will most likely be heavily overstocked as the Morgan & Peace Dollars will be a 1 year only issue and the SAE Type II will be the new ongoing Eagle.

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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by RogerB » Sat May 29, 2021 4:20 am

Hmmmm....I got a note purporting to be from the US Mint on the same subject. It asked me to "round up and deliver to Mint HQ all the able bodied squirrels in the vicinity." It didn't say what they would be used for, but I know squirrels like to run on little wheels and such.
:?

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HawkeEye
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by HawkeEye » Sat May 29, 2021 8:13 pm

Stlcoin wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 3:53 am
From my understanding, by law, the U.S Mint procures it's Silver, Gold, Platinum & Palladium for the next fiscal year by contract on Oct. 1st then takes delivery the last week in November.
Any idea if my memory was right and they must use US sources?

Also, I think the industrial uses of silver have surprised everyone and helped produce a shortage in some areas.

In particular the government's push for solar everything is apparently taking up a lot of the production.

I don't doubt that there is a lot of silver out there, but like most supply and demand issues the right stuff, in the right place, at the right time creates either surpluses or shortages.
Deep in the woods of North Georgia

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Bigbub
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by Bigbub » Sat May 29, 2021 11:40 pm

Here is my take on government agencies, their performance and their promises.

1) If they can find a way to mess it up, then they will.
2) All mess ups have a reason which is "unclear".
3) The first excuse will not be the last excuse.
4) No one is ever held responsible for any mess up.

Tennessee
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by Tennessee » Mon May 31, 2021 9:32 pm

I drive a truck, so my wife made a order for the Morgan CC & O Dollars. She got everything put in to buy them and the website crashed. When it came back up it said they were sold out. She was mad as a hornet. I made sure that the mint got a piece of my mind on their website when I got home. But a lot of people (collectors) across the country beat me to that.

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Kurt28
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by Kurt28 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:53 am

My observations.
Dhalladay,
“The United States Mint is committed to providing the best possible online experience to its customers. The global silver shortage has driven demand for many of our bullion and numismatic products to record heights.”
As the first two sentences are clearly false, I am inclined to discount the credibility of anything else they might say. Thank you for sharing.

Andy Hansen,
I tend to agree with the spirit of your analysis.

Bigbub,
Maxims distilled from years of experience and observation. Applicable to anything related to government.

My first question concerns the legal status of “The US Mint.”
Is this a part of a Constitutional Government, or is it a Contract Law authorized hybrid organization like the USPS?

Second, how are these souvenirs passed off under color of law as “dollars” when they clearly do not fit the definition? (Could I advertise a Porsche for sale and offer a stick of butter?)

A good reference: https://mises.org/library/constitutional-dollar

I don't wish to discourage anyone from collecting these silver rounds. Quite the opposite. Collect whatever brings you happiness. I'm sure I collect things that are of no interest to others.

My intent is not to be argumentative, but to offer my perspectives and benefit from those that know more than I do.

Stlcoin
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by Stlcoin » Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:13 am

HawkeEye wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 8:13 pm
Stlcoin wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 3:53 am
From my understanding, by law, the U.S Mint procures it's Silver, Gold, Platinum & Palladium for the next fiscal year by contract on Oct. 1st then takes delivery the last week in November.
Any idea if my memory was right and they must use US sources?

Also, I think the industrial uses of silver have surprised everyone and helped produce a shortage in some areas.

In particular the government's push for solar everything is apparently taking up a lot of the production.

I don't doubt that there is a lot of silver out there, but like most supply and demand issues the right stuff, in the right place, at the right time creates either surpluses or shortages.
You are correct, the Mint must use only U.S Procured Silver from U.S Soil. Wouldn't be surprised if they source it from Ted Turner.

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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by keilg1 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:28 am

Kurt28 wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:53 am

Second, how are these souvenirs passed off under color of law as “dollars” when they clearly do not fit the definition? (Could I advertise a Porsche for sale and offer a stick of butter?)

A good reference: https://mises.org/library/constitutional-dollar

I don't wish to discourage anyone from collecting these silver rounds. Quite the opposite. Collect whatever brings you happiness. I'm sure I collect things that are of no interest to others.

My intent is not to be argumentative, but to offer my perspectives and benefit from those that know more than I do.
Kurt, my brother, as always: you rock.

The Mises Institute is a treasure trove of information. My one complaint: I feel utterly ignorant of most things when I read writings like Ludwig von Mises "Money, Method, and the Market Process"...

I might know how the human brain works physiologically, but as the 2021 Morgan and Peace 'silver round' releases show, I stand confounded (while intensely amused) by human behavior...

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HawkeEye
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by HawkeEye » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:58 pm

Well if we needed any confirmation that the Mint is collaborating with dealers and leaving consumers out in the cold just look at eBay. There are a lot of dealers selling the privy coins in lots of 10 or more.
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alefzero
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Re: 2021 Morgans Postponed

Post by alefzero » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:42 pm

HawkeEye wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:58 pm
Well if we needed any confirmation that the Mint is collaborating with dealers and leaving consumers out in the cold just look at eBay. There are a lot of dealers selling the privy coins in lots of 10 or more.
Not so sure that there is a direct collaboration. Simply dealers who dedicated personnel into getting orders in (at the 10 count maxima naturally), the same way as all of us, got their confirmations and immediately are selling their future deliveries at defined profits. The more speculative among them are waiting for delivery and perhaps to see how many 70s they can pull from PCGS. It is doubtful that any orders will not make bank unless silver takes a major dive before then. Individual collectors didn't have all of their family and employees with a dedicated strategy. They were bound to more order fulfillments consequentially.

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