1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
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Flat-Chested
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Location: Saskatchewan Canada

1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by Flat-Chested » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:54 pm

ANACS grades are in and I am still without a 1878-S VAM-1i

473241 7175520 1878 S $ VAM-1I REV W/UNLISTED OBV DIE G6
473241 7175521 1878 S $ VAM-18 CLEANED E5
473241 7175522 1878 S $ VAM-26 LONG NOCK TOP 100 06
473241 7175523 1878 S $ VAM-26 LONG NOCK TOP 100 10
473241 7175524 1878 S $ VAM-31 POLISHED A8
473241 7175525 1878 S $ VAM-34 63
473241 7175526 1878 S $ VAM-56 LONG NOCK TOP 100 40
473241 7175527 1878 S $ VAM-57 LONG NOCK TOP 100 15
473241 7175528 1878 S $ VAM-58 LONG NOCK TOP 100 30
473241 7175529 1878 S $ VAM-59 LONG NOCK TOP 100 VG
473241 7175530 1878 S $ VAM-62 LONG NOCK TOP 100 08
473241 7175531 1878 S $ VAM-62 LONG NOCK TOP 100 06
473241 7175532 1878 S $ VAM-100 CLEANED VG
473241 7175533 1878 S $ VAM-111 DDO HOT 50 06
473241 7175534 1880 S $ VAM-67 65
473241 7175535 1884 S $ VAM-13 MPD VF

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lewisr2
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by lewisr2 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:29 pm

Some nice ones, especially
VAM 56 and two 62

Flat-Chested
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by Flat-Chested » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:22 pm

I am especially pleased that the 62's graded out. The rest of the coins did not matter so much to me.

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lewisr2
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by lewisr2 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:01 pm

I should have also mentioned that the VAM-1i is also special.
It may turn out to be one of your better finds.

Flat-Chested
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by Flat-Chested » Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:17 am

Dross

RogerB
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by RogerB » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:55 pm

In 1878 The San Francisco Mint used 90 obverse and 84 reverse dies for the standard silver dollar.

[Ref: RG104 E-229 Box 16 of 17]

vamnuke
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by vamnuke » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:27 pm

So the question is, have all dies used been accounted for with known varieties?

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pup_picker
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by pup_picker » Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:50 pm

RogerB wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:55 pm
In 1878 The San Francisco Mint used 90 obverse and 84 reverse dies for the standard silver dollar.

[Ref: RG104 E-229 Box 16 of 17]
how are these numbers affected by shared dies between mints, different years of coins and reworked dies?

not looking for specifics, just general commentary.

nice results in the OP. :)

at first i was shocked for no commentary about the au50 78-s 111 but then i realized it was Hot 50. ><

RogerB
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by RogerB » Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:33 pm

RE: "how are these numbers affected by shared dies between mints, different years of coins and reworked dies?"

These were dies used by and destroyed by the San Francisco Mint for 1878. Mints did not share dies and there are no extant records about the quantities of repaired dies. All dies cycled through the Engraving Department at the Philadelphia Mint. Any old undated dies deemed satisfactory were reissued only by that Department. They were often given new die numbers on re-issuance. Only a few clear records exist of dies reserved for reissue.

Good reverse dies in use at the end of one year might be continued in use, but the reporting is inconsistent, and we lack complete die use records for each mint. These once existed...now?
Last edited by RogerB on Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pup_picker
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by pup_picker » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:12 am

RogerB wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:33 pm
RE: "how are these numbers affected by shared dies between mints, different years of coins and reworked dies?"

These were dies used by and destroyed by the San Francisco Mint for 1878. Mints did not share dies and there are no extant records about the quantities of repaired dies. All dies cycled through the Engraving Department at the Philadelphia Mint. Any old undated dies deemed satisfactory were reissued only by that Department. They were often given new die numbers on reissuance. Only a few clear records exist of dies reserved for reissue.
ty for taking the time and sharing info. as you've read it.

what i mean about mints sharing dies is o/cc, o/s, 78p,s,cc /79p,s,cc and some others.

is it known whether there hubs/master dies or the like that produced working dies sent to different mints, only to receive the dates/mm once they reached their destination? i won't go on with all of this, just getting a feel.

i'm for sure very curious about repaired dies (there is another term i can't think of just now) and there being some sort of tracking, albeit inconsistent. ie: rehubbing, welding. there are some weird things these vam studies have bought to light. how/why/when etc is a bit of a black hole. "capped cc" for one.

Flat-Chested
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by Flat-Chested » Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:51 pm

I have a growing collection of VAM-62's (getting close to ten), a result of this collection is that the VAM-62's are just as rare as the VAM-60's and VAM-72's.

RogerB
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by RogerB » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:15 pm

RE:
what i mean about mints sharing dies is o/cc, o/s, 78p,s,cc /79p,s,cc and some others.

US Mints did not share dies. Dies with repunched mintmarks were still used only at one mint – never at two. Not sure what is meant by “78p,s,cc /79p,s,cc.” Please clarify.


is it known whether there hubs/master dies or the like that produced working dies sent to different mints, only to receive the dates/mm once they reached their destination? i won't go on with all of this, just getting a feel.

All dies were prepared at Philadelphia, including dates and mintmarks. The other mints were NOT authorized to alter a die except to adjust the basin or make a surface repair.


i'm for sure very curious about repaired dies (there is another term i can't think of just now) and there being some sort of tracking, albeit inconsistent. ie: rehubbing, welding. there are some weird things these vam studies have bought to light. how/why/when etc is a bit of a black hole. "capped cc" for one.

Please be careful about accepting some specialty terminology at its “usual meaning.” Working dies could become damaged by use, cracking, uneven wear and other defects. Those affecting the die face could be repaired by carefully polishing the field until the defects were gone. (This is how dies for proof-like coins were created, but that is incidental to extending a die's usable life.)

Re-hubbing means taking a working die, softening it, and pressing it into the original hub in order to strengthen the die’s design. In Morgan dollar collecting, the only confirmed instance was when 8-TF reverse dies were re-hubbed on the new 7-TF reverse. These dies had never been hardened.) This created all of the 7/8-TF coins.

Some working obverse dies, especially many dated 187x or 1879 had part of the date filled (or drilled then filled), smoothed and then repunched with xx80. Hence the large number of 1880/79 varieties.

“Welding” has no meaning as it might relate to dies.

Does this help a little?
Last edited by RogerB on Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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pup_picker
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1i Rev, Unlisted Obv Die

Post by pup_picker » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:43 am

RogerB wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:15 pm

Does this help a little?[/b]
yes. it gets me where i need to go. ty again for taking the time.

hope not to get the thread more derailed than i have. :)

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