VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
RogerB
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VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by RogerB » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:30 pm

...should VAMWorld sponsor a weed killer?

Possible new VAM collectors are, at least anecdotally, discouraged by the vast weedy patch that is the VAM listings. There is, simply put, too much "weed" and not enough "flower" to engage a beginner.

Is anyone working on a simplified VAM publication (a "weed killer") focusing on easily visible varieties without all the sub-VAM undergrowth, tangles, and associated confusion? By weeding the garden, new open space is created for new collector to take root, grow and bloom.

[Disclaimer - I do not collect dollars by die variety, but I feel it is an area open to greater collector interest.]
Last edited by RogerB on Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

colwillys
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by colwillys » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:01 pm

Be a collector First , Morgan or Peace Dollars . Then look for direction up grade or start VAMMING ..

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CascadeChris
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by CascadeChris » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:02 pm

That's what the "lists" are *precisly* for..
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...kenny
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by ...kenny » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:04 pm

CascadeChris wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:02 pm
That's what the "lists" are *precisly* for..
I don't think it could be explained any better than that... :lol:
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my.........Ahh........Uhmm........something, something, something..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

lured_in_again
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by lured_in_again » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:13 pm

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... /WOW!_VAMs this one seems to cover most of the basics.

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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:03 pm

I think the Leroy publication "Wonders of Morgan Dollars" fits this objective just fine.

VamHelsing
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by VamHelsing » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:37 pm

WOW! I wish someone would make up a list like that.. :shock:

Geseas
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by Geseas » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:58 pm

I think RogerB has just cleared a little patch and planted a seed. :D Authors do that.

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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by Geseas » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:54 pm

You have to be so respectful with that weed killer; not easy to do. @CascadeChris may like to grow *precisly*in his garden. It just might be good for people/collectors.
Last edited by Geseas on Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

RogerB
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by RogerB » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:46 am

Merely hoping that some will see the possibilities....

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vampicker
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by vampicker » Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:42 am

Actually, this idea was the main point of the Top 100 booklet. At the time it was released, VAMs had almost completely died out - to the point that Van Allen was no longer involved and had sold the rights to the VAM book. Several other works have covered similar ground like Rob Franklin's WOW! book and Leroy's Wonders of Morgan Dollars. To some extent the Cherrypicker's Guide does this too.
Having said that, there's always room for another work that would 'gently' introduce VAMs at an entry level.

But I'd also add that some of this really is hard to follow and that very fact IS its appeal to many of the long term specialists in this field. I might be a touch snobbish, but I kinda like the feel of the velvet rope across the VIP room entrance.
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

Namvet69
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by Namvet69 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:54 am

I feel challenged by the depth and breadth of VAMing but I shall not give up. I love all the lists and images and links up and down the die states. It's a journey not a destination. I just bookmarked the WOW list cause I hadn't been paying as much attention to it as I should. The hunt continues. Peace Roy

RogerB
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by RogerB » Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:04 pm

Several members make good defensive points, but all center on this little phrase: "To some extent."

Can one not select the best, most readily identifiable varieties, then present them in a new non-threatening (hopefully 'engaging') format? K.I.S.S.-off the complexity and minutiae in favor of broad interest and encouragement of new people.

There is also the possibility of my complete misconception of what members want for their specialty. If new members are not wanted that is as viable as any other option. The "velvet rope" can hang a coin specialty as readily as any other.

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messydesk
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by messydesk » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:52 pm

RogerB wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:04 pm
Several members make good defensive points, but all center on this little phrase: "To some extent."

Can one not select the best, most readily identifiable varieties, then present them in a new non-threatening (hopefully 'engaging') format? K.I.S.S.-off the complexity and minutiae in favor of broad interest and encouragement of new people.

There is also the possibility of my complete misconception of what members want for their specialty. If new members are not wanted that is as viable as any other option. The "velvet rope" can hang a coin specialty as readily as any other.
There are two approaches to this in books already mentioned, and they engage new collectors in different ways. The list books are the most obvious approach, and the "Top 100" book says, on the first page in big print:

Learn:
  • Which are the rarest, most popular, and desirable Morgan dollar varieties - the VAM keys?
  • How to quickly and easily identify rare Morgan dollar varieties ...
The "Wonders" book is more of a survey of what's out there, showing best-in-class examples of different types of varieties, and explaining how they came to be. A bit more cerebral than the list books, it also addresses how varieties came to be in addition to what types of varieties there are. At the Summer Seminar class, we give out copies of this book.

If it were easy to steer all new collectors in one of those directions before they see all the other stuff that people are specializing in and get distracted by it, that would be the obvious solution, and in a classroom setting, it's easy to tell everyone what to focus on. Unfortunately, forums where you have the curious, the beginners, and the seasoned specialist all together present a double-edged sword. Everyone has access to everything, but everyone has access to everything.

The VAMWorld Wiki home page and a few other "intro" pages could probably be laid out to better guide the new collector into a gentle introduction to VAMs without the feeling of a slog through the weeds. This isn't a trivial task, however, as a lot of new abridged content would need to be created, reviewed, and made easily and quickly navigable, while the existing content would need to be cleaned up a bit while still remaining easily accessed and useful. Another thing to consider is that the number of VAMs covered by the current Top 100, Hot 50, Hit List 40, WOW! Morgans, and the Top 50 and Elite 30 Peace dollars is about the same as the number of varieties in the entire Overton book. Also consider that most people that go to VAMWorld aren't looking for the beginner's path into the hobby. They want to know if a coin they have is rare and valuable.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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vampicker
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by vampicker » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:53 pm

I'd think we can do both things.
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

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bob259
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by bob259 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:18 pm

RogerB wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:04 pm

Can one not select the best, most readily identifiable varieties, then present them in a new non-threatening (hopefully 'engaging') format? K.I.S.S.-off the complexity and minutiae in favor of broad interest and encouragement of new people.
The problem is who picks the "the best, most readily identifiable varieties" and then is there a market for that list or will it just be another list like the others? From one who had thousands of silver dollars prior to learning about vams, the complexity and minutiae were a great help with many of my coins. Many lists already created were a great help in identifycation. If one wants to only look for overt pups I would steer new collectors toward the WOW list but we all know whether going to coin shows or shopping the bay we are limited if we are only searching for a particular list. A newby could get discouraged by not finding one on his list. I find the fun in searching for the VAM of a particular coin especially if it is a difficult one to identify. New lists - I'm not against them, if someone wants to go to the trouble, but in my humble opinion, they are not needed for a beginner. We have plenty of lists already.

Geseas
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by Geseas » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:12 pm

A 'noob' injection.....That statement could be interpreted many different ways...What I was after: The location of the definition index, hiding in plain site and that you can go back and edit your posts; you are trusted to do so. Responsibly and with respect by staying within the original context and thread.... Great thing to know for a boob. I ment noob like me. :D
Last edited by Geseas on Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:02 pm, edited 17 times in total.

Geseas
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by Geseas » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:31 pm

That is the knowledge I gleem here on vamworld 2.0. A lesson on communicating clearly with others and using this machine to do so. I sure appreciate this. Coins are kind of the best metaphor when you take on this kind of view.
Last edited by Geseas on Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.

RogerB
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by RogerB » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:40 pm

[/quote]

The problem is who picks the "the best, most readily identifiable varieties" and then is there a market for that list or will it just be another list like the others? From one who had thousands of silver dollars prior to learning about vams, the complexity and minutiae were a great help with many of my coins. Many lists already created were a great help in identifycation. If one wants to only look for overt pups I would steer new collectors toward the WOW list but we all know whether going to coin shows or shopping the bay we are limited if we are only searching for a particular list. A newby could get discouraged by not finding one on his list. I find the fun in searching for the VAM of a particular coin especially if it is a difficult one to identify. New lists - I'm not against them, if someone wants to go to the trouble, but in my humble opinion, they are not needed for a beginner. We have plenty of lists already.
[/quote]

Hardly a problem at all. Multiple current collectors propose the clearest, most easily seen die varieties. Remove the duplicates, order by date/mint. Add explanations - again, clear and direct - and basic discussion. The goal is both to interest those who presently have very limited interest in die varieties, and to leave them wanting more. The publication can be entirely on-line with links (following the Wikidoodle model) to increasing levels of detail.

As noted in the original post, all the VAM weeds choke the flowers. You, VAM collectors, must offer a weeded and cleared garden if you want new members to take root and flourish. These decisions are yours to make and act on.

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impairedsquirrel
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Re: VAM Weed Killer. To encourage new collectors to grow...

Post by impairedsquirrel » Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:53 am

Roger, I don’t mean to brag, but I feel as though we, as a community, did try to answer your question. Have you looked into:
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... /WOW!_VAMs

It is like the 3rd most popular set in the SSDC registry... ;)

Reading your comment, it seems to line up with the point of the set. My goal was to get people curious about VAMs by pointing out the most obvious examples of each of the major characteristics attributed to VAMs (clashing, breaks, gouges, etc.) and allowing them to forge their own path from there. One positive to all the “weeds” is folks can decide for themselves what they like. One person’s weed is another’s flower... heck, I know a guy that created a set that has die cracks through mint marks! Point is, there is room for any interest.
My vision:
Step 1- notice something weird on your coin and stumble into VAMworld.
Step 2- discover the WOW! VAMs set and use it to learn the basics.
Step 3- go whatever direction you want. Some may head to the Top100 like the cool kids do, while others may decide to just chase die breaks.
Step 4- Profit
Ps: step 4 is a myth... :lol:
I go totally NUTS for WOW! VAMs!! Or is that from WOW! VAMs?

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