1902-O VAM-59?

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bownarrow
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:21 am

1902-O VAM-59?

Post by bownarrow » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:52 am

Hi everyone

I have a 1902-O I just can't figure out. Near Date obverse and two olives reverse according to VAM-59. The two olives and shoulder gap confer with the C4/C3 reverse.

In the C4/C3 Reverse Crack Finder (linked below) this coin has identical cracks to both of the photos at the bottom of page 33 for VAM-59. Photos of these are attached.

The cracks easily seen in the photo at the top of page 34 however are very faint on this coin. They can't be seen with the naked eye or even in photos. The crack between the L's of Dollar is surely there through the 10x loupe though I can't produce it in photos. Even through the loupe and looking at multiple angles in good light, the crack between the O and L is difficult to see. I'm guessing this is an earlier die stage coin and if so, what does that do to its VAM status if anything?

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... Finder.pdf

Where I start to lose faith is with the obverse crack between the 1 in the date and the hair. On this coin, it is not there. Not even a trace.

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 2-O_VAM-59

What can I make of this? Is this a VAM-59, some other VAM, a discovery (of a VAM-59 reverse paired with some other obverse?), or no variety at all? I keep thinking there is some rule or standard of determining VAMs that I'm not aware of yet.

Thank you all!
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TheYokel
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Re: 1902-O VAM-59?

Post by TheYokel » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:13 am

Cracks aren't listable unless they form a break or displacement, so radial cracks are just more for identifying and eye candy. They are super helpful to judge die states sometimes, as you noted.

Check your coin for the profile doubling and the wing gouge if you don't trust the cracks, but the O-Star crack is a clincher... Those are the defining characteristics of 59... The cracks just add to the coin.
It's coming... :popcorn:

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messydesk
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Re: 1902-O VAM-59?

Post by messydesk » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:33 pm

bownarrow wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:52 am
...
What can I make of this? Is this a VAM-59, some other VAM, a discovery (of a VAM-59 reverse paired with some other obverse?), or no variety at all? I keep thinking there is some rule or standard of determining VAMs that I'm not aware of yet.

Thank you all!
I would say VAM 59. The crack guide was a result of some pretty thorough research by @LateDateMorganGuy. As cracks usually form over time (they can form when the die is made), not every crack shown will be on every coin, and later die stages may have more advanced cracks. If you find a match, though, cracks are like fingerprints, so if you have a coin with cracks, a good crack guide can be a valuable attribution tool, even though the cracks themselves aren't listed features.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

bownarrow
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:21 am

Re: 1902-O VAM-59?

Post by bownarrow » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:29 am

Thank you guys for your time.

messydesk and TheYokel, thanks for explaining die cracks and what they can and can't do. I must've read this once before and in the back of my mind I kinda knew, but it's good to get instruction like this so it really sets in.

I think it's alright to let this thread close as completed but I wanted to report in one more time about the coin in case my observations change anything.

On the reverse, I've confirmed doubling that's supposed to be there. The base of the olive leaf cluster, the back of the bottom arrowhead, the nostril and eye of the eagle (very cool!). Also the polishing line in the wing-neck gap is there.

On the obverse, I can't find the doubling on the profile (looking back, that's what led me to the crack guide in the first place). I'm new at this, so I'm sure most of you could get me drunk and prank me into getting excited and you'd have me seeing "doubling" all over the place! Someday when I'm more experienced I'll be prank-proof. I don't want to lazily think I have VAMs just because i want to, I'd rather try as hard as I can to rule them out and succeed at doing that. So the problem could very well be that I'm just too novice at this to confirm it. I actually thought I saw doubling on the profile...before I didn't.

So reflecting on this coin one last time for posterity, it looks like the reverse has everything that VAM-59 is supposed to, and the obverse is troubling, either because of my own skill level, or because there is no profile doubling just like there isn't that die crack. It is a Near Date though. When I looked over this coin with the loupe for the first time, I wrote "VERY Near Date" in my notes hehe. I do get excited no doubt.

Thanks again! No need to reply unless VAM-59 is potentially ruled out by any of the above. Thank you for your time, it means a lot.

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