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1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:19 pm
by bjsilverfox
I have been following the New take on VAM 23A post because of a coin I labeled as a 1889 VAM 7B LDS and filed away. It has the observe and reverse die markers of the VAM 7B/60. What has confounded me all this time is there is no letter transfer, but there are faint observe and reverse clashes. Pictures of the VAM 60 observe appear identical to my coin. The reverse, of my coin, however, shows a faint image of Liberty's profile in the left laurel wreath and faint phrygian cap clash inside the right laurel wreath. Is this what has been called a VAM 60? I couldn't make out these clashes on the full coin photos, which is no surprise given they are so faint on my coin. My question is going forward how should my coin be labeled?

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:27 pm
by PacificWR
Check and see if you have the die marker with the polishing lines in the lower cap and the dot on the lower right serif of the R in LIBERTY. The clash N fades away with die wear. In addition, check the reverse die for a very faint clash to the N of IN and for die cracks in AMERICA and STATES. There are at least three die stages. LVA should have this straightened out soon.

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:24 pm
by vampicker
Yeah, different states of same marriage. I have my old 89 doubled ear attribution notes and this had been called VAM 30 for a while before a different marriage got listed as VAM 30. That one is now VAM 15. I have a note that I've called the VAM 60 (before it got listed) VAM 7 after the changes with VAM 30. It's a doubled ear that's a product of die wear rather than hub doubling. Is your head spinning yet?

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:38 am
by CascadeChris
vampicker wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:24 pm
Is your head spinning yet?
tenor-2.gif
tenor-2.gif (126.98 KiB) Viewed 717 times

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:25 am
by blh74
I have one of each. They sure look the same to me. I now believe I have two 7B vams.

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:36 am
by RMG1883CC
60 Does not have transfer I believe
7B description states “n” shows at neck.
So transfer is the key, just the 7B has transfer

http://www.silverdye.us/wiki/Main/PhPa1889V7BRMG092220

Plus what Wayne mentioned earlier is important.
Maybe some better photos for 60, 7B, and maybe some in the 23 series Coming soon

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:18 am
by bjsilverfox
PacificWR wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:27 pm
Check and see if you have the die marker with the polishing lines in the lower cap and the dot on the lower right serif of the R in LIBERTY. The clash N fades away with die wear. In addition, check the reverse die for a very faint clash to the N of IN and for die cracks in AMERICA and STATES. There are at least three die stages. LVA should have this straightened out soon.
Wayne, all the observe die markers you mentioned are on my coin. On the reverse I see a faint double clash between the n & G as pictured for the VAM 7B along with the laurel wreath clashes I mentioned in the initial post. There is a die crack in AMERICA as pictured for the VAM 60 but no crack in STATES.
vampicker wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:24 pm
Yeah, different states of same marriage. I have my old 89 doubled ear attribution notes and this had been called VAM 30 for a while before a different marriage got listed as VAM 30. That one is now VAM 15. I have a note that I've called the VAM 60 (before it got listed) VAM 7 after the changes with VAM 30. It's a doubled ear that's a product of die wear rather than hub doubling. Is your head spinning yet?
John, yes my head is spinning. The double ear due to die wear like so many other '89's. I will just leave it labeled VAM 7B LDS for now.

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:23 am
by PacificWR
bjsilverfox wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:18 am
PacificWR wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:27 pm
Check and see if you have the die marker with the polishing lines in the lower cap and the dot on the lower right serif of the R in LIBERTY. The clash N fades away with die wear. In addition, check the reverse die for a very faint clash to the N of IN and for die cracks in AMERICA and STATES. There are at least three die stages. LVA should have this straightened out soon.
Wayne, all the observe die markers you mentioned are on my coin. On the reverse I see a faint double clash between the n & G as pictured for the VAM 7B along with the laurel wreath clashes I mentioned in the initial post. There is a die crack in AMERICA as pictured for the VAM 60 but no crack in STATES.
Can you check the reverse for a very faint clash N in IN? You may have to tilt the eagle head down and try it in real good lighting. No Clash N on the obverse?

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:02 am
by bjsilverfox
Can you check the reverse for a very faint clash N in IN? You may have to tilt the eagle head down and try it in real good lighting. No Clash N on the obverse?
[/quote]

Okay, when I tip the eagles head down I do see a line from the eagles wing to the right inner serif of the n. No clashed n on the observe, but there does appear to be a third wing clash about a third of the way down Liberty's neck.

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:38 am
by PacificWR
Sounds like the clash N has worn off and that would make it a VAM-7A. LVA will sort this out shortly. To double check this go to JR's post on VAM-23A, on page three in my long response you will find links for an LVA attributed clashed VAM-7A. click on the two links for VAM-7A. Sounds like your coin looks like the same one in Andy's photos for VAM-7A.

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:35 pm
by vampicker
Agree this would now qualify as the current VAM 7A. Andy's coin is interesting - later than VAM 7B with another polish job. The reverse die in this progression had a long and eventful life

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:07 pm
by bjsilverfox
Thanks guys for helping me solve one of my long time mystery coins. Andy's coin pictured as the current VAM 7A is a match. Wayne, taking a closer look at your VAM 7A photo's convinced me.

Re: 1889 VAM 7B/VAM 60

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:19 pm
by vamsterdam
one of my biggest pet peeves is listing vams due to die wear(so-called doubled ears). i wish this didn't happen.