1883 O/O VAM 4 Grump with PCGS Questionable Color

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jared123
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 5:47 pm

1883 O/O VAM 4 Grump with PCGS Questionable Color

Post by jared123 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:55 pm

Hey all - I sent this coin in for grading to PCGS and it was sacked with "questionable color". Odd to me because I bought and put that coin away more than 10 years ago and it was pristine. I got it out when I decided to have it graded, and found this really cool (In my opinion of course) toning on the back. I know the toning is natural - but they don't! ARGH! What would you all say? Should I just get over it - or is it time for a feud :-) -that was a joke- Thanks and have a good one!
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jared123
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Re: 1883 O/O VAM 4 Grump with PCGS Questionable Color

Post by jared123 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:02 pm

A few close shots of the VAM 4.
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CascadeChris
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Re: 1883 O/O VAM 4 Grump with PCGS Questionable Color

Post by CascadeChris » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:20 am

One of the big misconceptions with toning is the whole AT/NT thing. Thats not really how it works. Its more along the lines of Market Acceptable and Not-Market Acceptable. Toning can develop naturally but if it has a look that a particular grader and/or grading service doesn't like/want in their holder they'll kick it back. Happens all the time, especially with cracked PCI toners or with those velvet case 3-coin "S" or "O" mint aftermarket sets with a 80-s/o, 81-s/o & 82-s/o coins for example. The velvet can make them tone in strange ways and a lot of times both PC & NG will kick them back.

You can send it back and maybe it will straight. From what I'm seeing I'm guessing they didn't like the pattern, how it kind of looks like it was trying to be a mint bag crescent pattern but not quite which can be seen as someone trying to replicate that.. and also the color to a lesser degree. The Golden with duel bands of sandy red/blue. Just looks odd overall even if it happened on it own.

Also, while we're on the subject.. NEVER, ever, send toned Silver Eagles to NGC. Theyll body bag any ASE toner 9.8 times out of 10, while PC is the exact opposite. Knowledge is key as the old axiom goes.. 😉
Alonzi VW 2.0!

RogerRock
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Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:40 am

Re: 1883 O/O VAM 4 Grump with PCGS Questionable Color

Post by RogerRock » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:55 am

CascadeChris wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:20 am
One of the big misconceptions with toning is the whole AT/NT thing. Thats not really how it works. Its more along the lines of Market Acceptable and Not-Market Acceptable. Toning can develop naturally but if it has a look that a particular grader and/or grading service doesn't like/want in their holder they'll kick it back. Happens all the time, especially with cracked PCI toners or with those velvet case 3-coin "S" or "O" mint aftermarket sets with a 80-s/o, 81-s/o & 82-s/o coins for example. The velvet can make them tone in strange ways and a lot of times both PC & NG will kick them back.

You can send it back and maybe it will straight. From what I'm seeing I'm guessing they didn't like the pattern, how it kind of looks like it was trying to be a mint bag crescent pattern but not quite which can be seen as someone trying to replicate that.. and also the color to a lesser degree. The Golden with duel bands of sandy red/blue. Just looks odd overall even if it happened on it own.

Also, while we're on the subject.. NEVER, ever, send toned Silver Eagles to NGC. Theyll body bag any ASE toner 9.8 times out of 10, while PC is the exact opposite. Knowledge is key as the old axiom goes.. 😉
GREAT ADVICE Chris, Thanks
Stage 3 TERMINAL DIE STATE SILVER DOLLAR EXPLORER

jared123
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 5:47 pm

Re: 1883 O/O VAM 4 Grump with PCGS Questionable Color

Post by jared123 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:14 am

Thanks for the good perspective and the information. I have no idea how the coin got that toning - it was strange to me. I had took out 5 other Morgans that went in the same way with no problems at all. Just odd. I wrote PCGS an email with my protest - so I am 99 percent sure that this coin will stay in this holder. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as much as I protest they are the beholder that matters for their holder. :mrgreen:

Thanks again and have a good week.

VamHelsing
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Location: Oregon

Re: 1883 O/O VAM 4 Grump with PCGS Questionable Color

Post by VamHelsing » Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:23 pm

Also remember there are 6 graders ( I think) you may have gotten 3
that didn't like it. I sent in an 84-CC 5 TIMES before it straight graded.
If you believe in it don't give up.

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