does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

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all-who-wander
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does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by all-who-wander » Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:04 pm

It looks to me like the reverse of this piece is the B/Al seen on VAM-42. It has a portion of extra arrow head below middle one. It has the detached Eagles right wing and branch end. It also has the very wide 6th tail feather.

The obverse has no die clash, so I am thinking it is the VAM-42.

The descriptions of the VAM-42 and 42A don't mention a broken 4th star, but it looks to me as though it is broken on this piece.

Do I have this attributed correctly as the VAM-42 (no die clash)?

Or is this a new variety? If so, what obverse does this piece have?
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Last edited by all-who-wander on Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vamsterdam
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Re: does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by vamsterdam » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:14 pm

the coin is too rough to tell if it had a clash or not. all vam 42a's have a clash.

vamsterdam
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Re: does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by vamsterdam » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:16 pm

the coin is too rough to tell if it had a clash or not. all vam 42a's have a clash.

all-who-wander
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Re: does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by all-who-wander » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:34 pm

What about the 4th star? The obverse photos on VAM 42 and 42-A both don't appear to show a broken 4th star. This piece has a broken star.

Is this a new variety?

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vampicker
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Re: does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by vampicker » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:10 pm

Maybe take a closer look at the lower loop of the 1st 8. There's a definitive answer there.
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crabscrape
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Re: does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by crabscrape » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:57 pm

Very good eye John!

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vampicker
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Re: does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by vampicker » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:09 pm

That's why I get paid. There's a teachable moment here that would help just about any newer VAM collector.
There are other features on this obverse that illustrate it is a II/I die rather than a product of that II hub with the broken star
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

shortnock
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Re: does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by shortnock » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:59 pm

Vampicker, Uuhhhh! What else besides... evenly-sized/divided portion of back of ear....

Also, on another subject that we discussed at ANA in Irving...note on the reverse of this VAM, the hand-tooling of the olive leaf stem is very evident.
Refrain from computing the total number of poultry... before the process of incubation has fully materialized.

all-who-wander
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Re: does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by all-who-wander » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:28 am

I see the evenly sized/divided ear.
Not sure what to look for on the bottom of the first 8.
I'm not seeing the retooling of the olive branch. I see a detached leaf portion, and that's about it.

I did notice that the top set of feathers is missing the middle section of feathers though. I haven't seen this on any of the pictures of the 7 over 8.

Did I at least get it right that the reverse is the B/AI of the VAM 42 and 42A?

I'm ready for my teachable moment, if you are willing to expound.

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vampicker
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Re: does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by vampicker » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:51 am

It's a VAM 42A. The stuff around the olive leaves is diagnostic for the reverse and that center stem is detached. That inner ear fill comes to a shortened point like most II/I obverse dies. There's a piece of a diagonal line visible in the lower loop of the first 8. The VAM 42A (there really isn't a 42 - they are all clashed on the obv only) shares its obverse with the VAM 17
You were on the right track then got faked out by what looks like damage and most likely further circulation.
When you get hung up by one particular apparent characteristic, it's extremely helpful to set it aside and look at the other stuff that's present.
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

all-who-wander
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Re: does the 1878-P VAM-42 7/7 Tail feathers have a damaged 4th star?

Post by all-who-wander » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:25 pm

I didn't think the die clash mark by the neck would wear off. I thought there sould at least be a trace of it visible, especially right up against the neck.

With all the dirt in the loop of the 8, I could not see the die chips.

It looks like that 4th star tip is a bit shorter even on an uncirculated piece, now that I look closer.

Thanks for this!

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