wide reeding

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mikev50
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wide reeding

Post by mikev50 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:08 pm

is the 1921p morgan the only one with 157 reeds---thanks---

Kissov
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Re: wide reeding

Post by Kissov » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:49 pm

If you check the 21 pages you will find:

21-P 1AB Reported with 180 reeds

21-D 1EN2 Reported with 181 reeds

21-S 1B2 Reported with 186 reeds

I would bet money that these are typos on the attribution pages and not reflected in the actual reeding.

Kissov
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Re: wide reeding

Post by Kissov » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:59 pm

And yes, the 21-P is the only one (so far!) that shows 157 reeds. Note that all but one also have the D1 reverse.

RogerB
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Re: wide reeding

Post by RogerB » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:00 am

By 1921, all collar reeding was cut with a drift tool. The only variations would have been due to employee error, cutting twice, use of wrong tool, installation of obsolete collar in press, etc.

(See From Mint to Mint if you're not sure what a drift tool is.)

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vampicker
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Re: wide reeding

Post by vampicker » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:26 pm

Yeah, it's highly likely that 157 reed collar was a one and only deal. I'm a little suspect of the other reported reed counts. I'd bet on 189 being the actual count on any non wide reed piece
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

RogerB
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Re: wide reeding

Post by RogerB » Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:42 pm

The standard silver dollar was supposed to have 189 reeds. But, as you can tell from the following letter, the actual count varied with use of a knurling tool and the precise diameter of the collar at the point were the coin was struck.

18990123 NO Collar problems_Page_1.jpg
18990123 NO Collar problems_Page_1.jpg (213.69 KiB) Viewed 548 times

Note: If collectors feel the explanation in FMTM is inadequate, I can expand it in the follow-on volume.

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vampicker
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Re: wide reeding

Post by vampicker » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:02 pm

That certainly was the case for earlier dollar production. It also happens to explain overlapping reeding. The 1921 dollars would have used collars with the reeds cut by the drift punch you mentioned. I've never seen a genuine Peace Dollar with anything other than 189 reeds.
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

RogerB
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Re: wide reeding

Post by RogerB » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:31 pm

Additional correspondence (following the posted letter) suggest considerable resistance at Philadelphia to discarding knurled collars. The comments take the form of, "But if we have this kind of lathe chuck and etc., etc., we could turn out reeding with the same consistency....."

In addition to using a drift tool for reeding, New Orleans also used a rotary ingot mold system that was faster to use, faster to cool, and lasted longer than the individual molds used in Philadelphia. The counting boards used in all the mints were invented by a New Orleans Mint employee and the government paid royalties to his widow for many years.

RogerB
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Re: wide reeding

Post by RogerB » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:33 pm

PS: Faster cooling of silver coin alloy meant less segregation of copper and silver in the ingot and more uniform fineness of coins. It also produced a better yield for small denomination coins where multiple blanks were cut across the strip.
Last edited by RogerB on Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

vamsterdam
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Re: wide reeding

Post by vamsterdam » Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:28 pm

i can't quie grasp the tools discussed in the last two responses @@rogerb_thomas

RogerB
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Re: wide reeding

Post by RogerB » Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:11 pm

vamsterdam wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:28 pm
i can't quie grasp the tools discussed in the last two responses @@rogerb_thomas
It's difficult to explain here w/o extensive illustrations. Maybe you can borrow a copy of From Mint to Mint from your local library (use ILL).

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