1880P Question

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Tommytucker
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1880P Question

Post by Tommytucker » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:04 am

Hello everyone, I am just getting started in collecting and picked Morgans and have found out what a great and large world collecting is. I just picked up this 1880P and it looks like the date is doubled on the bottom of all 4 numbers. I will post better pictures of the full coin tomorrow but here is one to start with. Any and all opinions are welcome. Thanks in advance for your help.
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LorenAlbert
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by LorenAlbert » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:20 am

Tommytucker wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:04 am
it looks like the date is doubled on the bottom of all 4 numbers.
You might be observing what has been called stretch toning. During the life of the die, the date may "migrate" as the die wears (sinks). The properties of the metal on the rim side of the date may change in a way to alter toning in the area.
Last edited by LorenAlbert on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tommytucker
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by Tommytucker » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:45 am

Here are 2 full pictures from the site I bought it from.
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1880 Front.jpg
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ljs123
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by ljs123 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:01 am

Tommytucker,
Welcome to VAMworld. I hope that you get into this very interesting hobby.

The two obverse photos that you showed are from two different coins. I look at 80-Ps regularly, and these are definitely two different
obeverse.

Tommytucker
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by Tommytucker » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:10 am

I was thinking that myself as the ledge under the date does not show on them, the 2 full size pictures I grabbed from the site I bought it from, the first pic is from the coin I have in hand and the numbering slip/slide is noticeable. Any advise on how to take decent pictures so someone who knows what they are looking at can provide useful comments? And should I take down the two full pics? Don't want to confuse, or mislead anyone.

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ljs123
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by ljs123 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:54 am

IMO (in my opinion), I would leave the photos as you already posted them.
If you make any changes, those that read the thread later think I have rocks in my head. Ha ha.

Between you and me, they already think that.
🤪

Tekkie1
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by Tekkie1 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:31 am

You know Lee, they look like different obverses but a couple of scratches, one right at the jaw line and one vertical scuff in front of a star and "UNUM" seem to match in both pics. Though I can't see the same thing under the digits. :?:

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ljs123
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by ljs123 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:43 am

Tekkie1 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:31 am
You know Lee, they look like different obverses but a couple of scratches, one right at the jaw line and one vertical scuff in front of a star and "UNUM" seem to match in both pics. Though I can't see the same thing under the digits. :?:
Look at the hair vee
Totally different coin

Tommytucker
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by Tommytucker » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:52 am

What is the Hair V?

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ljs123
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by ljs123 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:02 am

I’m using my phone.now. If I was on my computer I would crop the photos and clearly show you how the V in the hair curls above the first and second right stars are very different.
If you look above the 1 in the date there is a mark on the neck. They are in almost the same spot. However, they are different marks. One looks like a cut and the other a strike.
But the hair vee is the real proof.

Tommytucker
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by Tommytucker » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:12 am

Wow, that is really different, thanks for pointing that out. My coin is much more defined in that area than the coin in the auction picture, I think I got lucky and was sent a better grade coin. I also noticed the difference in the lump on the lower edge of the chest.

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ljs123
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by ljs123 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:21 am

I’m glad that you are happy with your coin.
But to be clear, a defined or polished hair vee doesn’t make one coin better or worse.
There are some great 80-P VAMs both ways.

Again, welcome to VAMworld and the madness. 😜

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LorenAlbert
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by LorenAlbert » Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:12 pm

In general, there is polishing of the lower hair and designer's initial for the second coin posted. But, the second coin appears to be an earlier minting than the coin of the original post. If I have the order of minting correct; state and stage are out of play. Thus, not only different coins; but also different dies.

Tommytucker
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by Tommytucker » Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:03 pm

To be clear the first picture I posted is my actual coin, the 2 full size pictures are ones I took from the Ebay posting that I bought the coin from, that was supposed to be the coin I was buying. I will put up pic's I take later today of my coin, but back to my original question does it look like the date was double struck or is that just a artifact from the angle/lighting from when I took the pic?

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ljs123
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by ljs123 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:52 pm

Tommytucker wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:03 pm
To be clear the first picture I posted is my actual coin, the 2 full size pictures are ones I took from the Ebay posting that I bought the coin from, that was supposed to be the coin I was buying. I will put up pic's I take later today of my coin, but back to my original question does it look like the date was double struck or is that just a artifact from the angle/lighting from when I took the pic?
Take a look at the first reply by Loren.

Tekkie1
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by Tekkie1 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:39 pm

Look at the hair vee
Totally different coin
Sure is a different Obverse.
I was focusing on PMD which coincidentally match up.

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vampicker
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by vampicker » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:01 pm

I'll chime in. Pics are of the same coin in different lighting conditions. Look at the PMD around the eye, etc. A shadow in the hair vee is plausible. Identical matching post mint scratches are not.
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

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ljs123
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by ljs123 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:17 pm

vampicker wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:01 pm
I'll chime in. Pics are of the same coin in different lighting conditions. Look at the PMD around the eye, etc. A shadow in the hair vee is plausible. Identical matching post mint scratches are not.
JR;
Thanks for the lesson. Too cool. 8-)

Tekkie1
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by Tekkie1 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:34 pm

Well shit! :lol:

It did look different on my phone's screen as opposed to my laptop. :oops: :P

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ljs123
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Re: 1880P Question

Post by ljs123 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:43 pm

Felix,
This is what I feel like

28CE0181-B6A0-4A55-98A9-BBDD8CD7367E.gif
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