1880P Question

[Tommytucker]

Hello everyone, I am just getting started in collecting and picked Morgans and have found out what a great and large world collecting is. I just picked up this 1880P and it looks like the date is doubled on the bottom of all 4 numbers. I will post better pictures of the full coin tomorrow but here is one to start with. Any and all opinions are welcome. Thanks in advance for your help.

[LorenAlbert]

it looks like the date is doubled on the bottom of all 4 numbers.

You might be observing what has been called stretch toning. During the life of the die, the date may "migrate" as the die wears (sinks). The properties of the metal on the rim side of the date may change in a way to alter toning in the area.

[Tommytucker]

Here are 2 full pictures from the site I bought it from.

[ljs123]

Tommytucker,
Welcome to VAMworld. I hope that you get into this very interesting hobby.

The two obverse photos that you showed are from two different coins. I look at 80-Ps regularly, and these are definitely two different
obeverse.

[Tommytucker]

I was thinking that myself as the ledge under the date does not show on them, the 2 full size pictures I grabbed from the site I bought it from, the first pic is from the coin I have in hand and the numbering slip/slide is noticeable. Any advise on how to take decent pictures so someone who knows what they are looking at can provide useful comments? And should I take down the two full pics? Don't want to confuse, or mislead anyone.

[ljs123]

IMO (in my opinion), I would leave the photos as you already posted them.
If you make any changes, those that read the thread later think I have rocks in my head. Ha ha.

Between you and me, they already think that.
🤪

[Tekkie1]

You know Lee, they look like different obverses but a couple of scratches, one right at the jaw line and one vertical scuff in front of a star and "UNUM" seem to match in both pics. Though I can't see the same thing under the digits.

[ljs123]

You know Lee, they look like different obverses but a couple of scratches, one right at the jaw line and one vertical scuff in front of a star and "UNUM" seem to match in both pics. Though I can't see the same thing under the digits.

Look at the hair vee
Totally different coin

[Tommytucker]

What is the Hair V?

[ljs123]

I’m using my phone.now. If I was on my computer I would crop the photos and clearly show you how the V in the hair curls above the first and second right stars are very different.
If you look above the 1 in the date there is a mark on the neck. They are in almost the same spot. However, they are different marks. One looks like a cut and the other a strike.
But the hair vee is the real proof.

[Tommytucker]

Wow, that is really different, thanks for pointing that out. My coin is much more defined in that area than the coin in the auction picture, I think I got lucky and was sent a better grade coin. I also noticed the difference in the lump on the lower edge of the chest.

[ljs123]

I’m glad that you are happy with your coin.
But to be clear, a defined or polished hair vee doesn’t make one coin better or worse.
There are some great 80-P VAMs both ways.

Again, welcome to VAMworld and the madness.

[LorenAlbert]

In general, there is polishing of the lower hair and designer's initial for the second coin posted. But, the second coin appears to be an earlier minting than the coin of the original post. If I have the order of minting correct; state and stage are out of play. Thus, not only different coins; but also different dies.

[Tommytucker]

To be clear the first picture I posted is my actual coin, the 2 full size pictures are ones I took from the Ebay posting that I bought the coin from, that was supposed to be the coin I was buying. I will put up pic's I take later today of my coin, but back to my original question does it look like the date was double struck or is that just a artifact from the angle/lighting from when I took the pic?

[ljs123]

To be clear the first picture I posted is my actual coin, the 2 full size pictures are ones I took from the Ebay posting that I bought the coin from, that was supposed to be the coin I was buying. I will put up pic's I take later today of my coin, but back to my original question does it look like the date was double struck or is that just a artifact from the angle/lighting from when I took the pic?

Take a look at the first reply by Loren.

[Tekkie1]

Look at the hair vee
Totally different coin

Sure is a different Obverse.
I was focusing on PMD which coincidentally match up.

[vampicker]

I'll chime in. Pics are of the same coin in different lighting conditions. Look at the PMD around the eye, etc. A shadow in the hair vee is plausible. Identical matching post mint scratches are not.

[ljs123]

I'll chime in. Pics are of the same coin in different lighting conditions. Look at the PMD around the eye, etc. A shadow in the hair vee is plausible. Identical matching post mint scratches are not.

JR;
Thanks for the lesson. Too cool.

[Tekkie1]

Well shit!

It did look different on my phone's screen as opposed to my laptop.

[ljs123]

Felix,
This is what I feel like

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