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1900 O/CC

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:06 pm
by CollectorChris
Hi all, I could really use some assistance with this one. I am waiting on it to arrive in the mail right now. I was pursuing through some auctions a few days ago and by chance, I ran across this coin. It was advertised as a 1900-O ICG graded MS65+ for $150. I was looking at the reverse and thought I saw the outline of the CC behind the O. I posted some picks on a FB group I belong to for confirmation of what I thought I saw and pulled the trigger. I was advised to come here and post some pics and get your opinions of if you concur with:

It legitimately being an O/CC, the grade, and which VAM it would be considered. I really hope I did well on this one and you all wouldnt mind sharing your expertise. Thank you in advance, I look forward to your comments very much!

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Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:25 pm
by Vam-mysterio
Hi
Welcome to vamworld!,
Sorry for this,
But
Bad online pictures can often mimic the over mintmark o/cc
A lot of times is outlined really good with the bad lighting that your brain is saying :o over cc!
But don’t worry,
It has happened to all of us from time to time
Sorry to be the crusher of your dreams

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:40 pm
by Brabjohn
Nice coin! But unfortunately not an O/CC. Mintmark and date position don’t match any known variety.

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:58 pm
by CollectorChris
Thank you for your observations. These pictures are not that great. I will add some additional ones when it does come in. I zoomed on these and could swear I see the back of a C to the right of the O, the lower part of C from bottom left of the O and inside the O the backside of the C under the left of the O.

If it isn't, lesson learned, that why I am here, hoping to glean some of this groups knowledge. Thank you again.

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Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:28 pm
by lured_in_again
I actually saw a similar but lower grade coin on E-bay today. It looked similar in the the mm area and had the same die crack across the D/wing tip/S. It was enough to make me look here @ VW for a match in the o / cc listings, but alas, no match that i could find.

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:11 pm
by CollectorChris
Possibly a previously unidentified variety???

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:56 pm
by ljs123
CollectorChris wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:11 pm
Possibly a previously unidentified variety???

I guess it’s possible, but not likely.

If this coin does turn out to be an O/CC, it has to be an unidentified variety because the mint mark location doesn’t match any known O/CC.

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:18 am
by alefzero
It looks like a 21D2 to me.

(I have one in my eBay store, but not appropriate to put such links here. Feel free to compare though.)

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:26 am
by alefzero
Here are a couple detail shots I did not put on that lot that should make it fairly certain, especially combined with the date and mint mark positions,
1246-5.jpg
1246-5.jpg (280.4 KiB) Viewed 714 times
1246-6.jpg
1246-6.jpg (281.45 KiB) Viewed 714 times
Pretty unique.

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:31 am
by alefzero
As for the potential of an unlisted O/CC reverse die. Here is the mint mark up close. No chance. Mottled toning on this coin, but no raised metal suggesting an underlying CC.
1246-7.jpg
1246-7.jpg (201.63 KiB) Viewed 714 times

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:50 am
by CollectorChris
Thank you all for the input, it is very helpful in being able to pick out nuances and some detailing.

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:33 pm
by CollectorChris
Thank you all for the responses, lesson learned, compare all the major characteristics before you get too excited. It is still a nice coin, not sure it is MS65+ as the ICG label states, but a keeper for my set for sure. I will have to research the 21D and see if it fits.

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Thank you all again for the help. Now to figure out if this one is a VAM with the die break thru the wing.

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:01 pm
by jgrinz
Little better picture of what an O/CC looks like



200803160047489.jpg
200803160047489.jpg (189.99 KiB) Viewed 660 times

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:01 am
by RogerB
Do you have a better photo of the coin?

Here is an enhancement of the one you posted.
Image2.jpg
Image2.jpg (83.89 KiB) Viewed 642 times
While the likelihood of a coin being from an unknown reverse die, it remains a possibility. I recommend careful examination of the coin on its own first, then compare to known varieties. Further, do not simply assume "the mintmark locations or relative positions are wrong" -- on a new reverse they would be different.

Since we know almost nothing about when these dies were made or whipped to NO or anything else, there is no absolute.

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:07 am
by jgrinz
Looks as though his MM is too high and tilted right to be a O/CC
imho

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:01 pm
by CollectorChris
I will post some better pictures of it today. It came in yesterday and I tried to really scrutinize it under light. Though I was confident I saw it in the original pictures, I am having a hard time seeing it in person.

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:12 pm
by jgrinz
Kindsa thinking its just a VAM-3 but better pictures will help. I use my phone all the time
Put lighting on both sides of the coin and prop your elbows to steady the phone
See how that works for ya
gl

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:45 pm
by CollectorChris
Here are some photos I took, not sure that they are much better.

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Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:36 am
by RogerB
The new photos suggest that the "O" is not punched over "CC" or any other letter. The conclusive point is the uniform recess in the field immediately next to the "O." All overmintmarks show slight irregularities caused by prior metal displacement from the old mintmark. This coin does not seem to have those irregularities.

Thanks for posting the extra photos.
:)

Re: 1900 O/CC

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:49 am
by blh74
Try V-34