1923 Unlisted Die Break?

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Pareidoliac
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1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by Pareidoliac » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:02 am

Is this an unlisted die break or not a listable feature? It is not listed as a die break variety. Could this break be a diagnostic in another '23 VAM that I am just not finding?
Attachments
1923 die break neck bottom 4.jpg
1923 die break neck bottom 4.jpg (133.08 KiB) Viewed 701 times
1923 die break neck bottom 3.jpg
1923 die break neck bottom 3.jpg (152.52 KiB) Viewed 701 times
1923 die break neck bottom 2.jpg
1923 die break neck bottom 2.jpg (163.88 KiB) Viewed 701 times
1923 die break neck bottom 1.jpg
1923 die break neck bottom 1.jpg (124.81 KiB) Viewed 701 times
1923 die break obv.jpg
1923 die break obv.jpg (164.08 KiB) Viewed 701 times

evensocome
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by evensocome » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:52 am

Looks familiar. Not listable, but definitely a lock die marker on the vam it belongs to. Can't remember which one it is off the top of my head - I'm sure vampicker or messydesk will know.

Mhomei
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by Mhomei » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:02 pm

Appears to be EDS of 1CG
Do you have reverse pics?

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pup_picker
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by pup_picker » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:03 pm

Mhomei wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:02 pm
Appears to be EDS of 1CG
Do you have reverse pics?
the crack at the tip of the bust is too low for 1cg imo. if the obv image is correct on the page.

also the break at the back of the bun is in a diff position. - i had to double check because there was a chance it could have been an eds like you said.
Attachments
vamworld-not-1cg-tip-bust-pup-2020.jpg
vamworld-not-1cg-tip-bust-pup-2020.jpg (49.84 KiB) Viewed 646 times

Pareidoliac
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by Pareidoliac » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:06 pm

I apologize for the delay in getting these reverse pictures posted.
Attachments
1923 die break neck bottom rev.jpg
1923 die break neck bottom rev.jpg (126.22 KiB) Viewed 629 times
1923 die break neck bottom rev 2.jpg
1923 die break neck bottom rev 2.jpg (127.13 KiB) Viewed 629 times

Pareidoliac
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by Pareidoliac » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:39 pm

I'm not clear on why the break on this 1923 is not listable. When I look at 1CG and 1DD, both with die breaks at the bottom of the neck, I don't see much difference and, if anything, the 1923 here has a more pronounced break with some silver oozing through a small spot in the line. Is it just not large enough to list? Thanks.

Also, let me know if the reverse photos help identify this VAM.

Pareidoliac
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by Pareidoliac » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:42 pm

Here's another reverse photo.
Attachments
1923 die break neck eagle's shoulder.jpg
1923 die break neck eagle's shoulder.jpg (134.55 KiB) Viewed 619 times

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pup_picker
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by pup_picker » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:22 pm

i'm not saying there aren't any peace d/c with only the neck "crack(s)". generally that is not a listable feature on its own as too common/too minor.

crack vs break. a LONG discussed subject here. breaks are far more desirable and listable.

that said, your coin may have/need other features to accompany the neck cracks.

i'll look over the vams you mention and see if i have anything further to offer. depends on what images are on the pages.

edited:

do you have any discoveries yet?


edited after perusing the vams you mentioned.

1cg is listed because of the amazing reverse radial die break. the neck is shown for attribution/diagnostic purposes.

1dd, imo, is minor. leroy called it field displacement and that particular crack is quite different than most on the neck and is a borderline radial break going through a number in the date and thus more interesting and identifiable.

my personal comment about neck cracks on peace. there are SO SO SO many and are SO SO SO similar that if they were listed w/o some decent secondary pups, it would just be a nightmare. IE: 21 scribbles. they are doable, but have specialized guides and there still is no guarantee you won't go mad. - no offense to the scrib-heads. :P

Pareidoliac
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by Pareidoliac » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:40 am

Thanks for the reply. Answer to do I have any discoveries: no. Sent a couple to Leroy last year and/or 2018. Nothing of late.

davidkclose
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by davidkclose » Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:28 am

What I see as possibly listable are the small die chip on the underside of Liberty's neck, a long die crack from the left side of neck into the field, and file lines on the reverse to polish off clash marks.
Of these, the only one I think Leroy would list would be the die crack, and then only if there is displacement across it. These he will list, even though there are many of them, look at 1923S.
Hope this is helpful,
David

Sartre
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by Sartre » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:19 am

can anyone please tell me if they have seen this type of break as it appears as a triangle
Attachments
1923IMG_8452.jpg
1923IMG_8452.jpg (231.6 KiB) Viewed 561 times
1923 IMG_8454.jpg
1923 IMG_8454.jpg (223.2 KiB) Viewed 561 times

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pup_picker
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by pup_picker » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:17 pm

Sartre wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:19 am
can anyone please tell me if they have seen this type of break as it appears as a triangle
would you please start a new thread with the pics. thanks

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pup_picker
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by pup_picker » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:23 pm

Pareidoliac wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:40 am
Thanks for the reply. Answer to do I have any discoveries: no. Sent a couple to Leroy last year and/or 2018. Nothing of late.
yw :D

ok. that should have been my question is if you have submitted any coins for d/c consideration to vss or leroy. but you answered it also. ty

if you don't have a book or the supplements, they will aid GREATLY in sorting through and finding d/c more effectively and efficiently. of course things change from year to year on what leroy will or won't list.

use the attribution/sort guides on the pages. A LOT of work has gone into those and while they may take a while to learn to use, they are pretty amazing most of the time.

"Could this break be a diagnostic in another '23 VAM that I am just not finding?" ----- yes as the odds are it is a listed vam. also check for doubled initials on the obv below the neck. it looks like it from one of your images.

if you know how to bookmark or if you want to start making lists, you can create your own sorted guides. perhaps d/l hundreds or more images into folders. --- lot of work on the front end, lots of benefits on the back.

happy hunting!

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pup_picker
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Re: 1923 Unlisted Die Break?

Post by pup_picker » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:51 pm

Pareidoliac wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:02 am
Is this an unlisted die break or not a listable feature? It is not listed as a die break variety. Could this break be a diagnostic in another '23 VAM that I am just not finding?
came across this and thought of your coin. don't see them often listed with neck break and nothing else but it does happen. granted there aren't any plates and the description is incomplete but it looks like just a neck crack/break d/c.

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 6-D_VAM-1I

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