is leroy available to play with coins yet?

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messydesk
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by messydesk » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:54 pm

morganman wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:24 pm
I hear the SSDC has a plan- if so- bring it out for review and discussion, as any good organization should do.
This is a bit of a sticky situation, in that there's the need to balance transparency with the need to be respectful of how Leroy wishes things to be handled at present and in the future. There's also the desire not to come across as ghoulish, like family members closely inspecting and silently appraising the contents of a living grandparent's house. I have discussed with others in private possible ways the VAM catalog could be maintained for the distant future, under the assumption that it is the desire of Leroy that it be done. My takeaway from these discussions is that it's unlikely that it falls on one person, and that while the method chosen will cause a temporary "service outage," it won't be a long one. Beyond that, there's no reason to make details of these discussions public, for two reasons. First, they're largely speculative brainstorming. Second, I don't want to have someone come back 10 years from now and say, "You said it would be this way, and now it's that way," complete with extracurricular expletives.

My suggestion to everyone is to keep calm and do die studies.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by morganman » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:45 pm

Thanks JB; Calm is the right word, as positive strokes help make informed good decisions
We all know this is a pretty delicate touchy issue, and utmost respect a priority.

IMHO= In this tougher mkt - I honestly believe vams need more exposure, and a
think tank of sorts created. Honestly, Vams are in trouble except for a small
percentage of ultra rare & top pops.

Common attributed vams bring less money than NAOH counterparts, as
the thrill of the hunt is lacking.

I also see that most all SSDC etc powers at be are avid collectors, natrually
But there needs be proactive business minds as well as marketing minds
in any business to allow for upside growth and prevent stalemates.
Not saying these current guys arent also proactive/kina business
I just bet some personalitys like Andy Hansen etc would shake Vams
in the right direction. I love guys like two hawks-Russ, but he's crazy way
involved with dies/sub varieties -which is cool but not what the big picture
needs. Dont read this wrong- Russ and fellow members are super engaged
and have my total respect- Just saying IMHO

I believe over time it will all come to fruition, as unbelievable strides have
been completed thus far, with the unreal efforts from guys like you and
many others. Thanks to you all
:|

crabscrape
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by crabscrape » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:02 pm

The writing has been on the wall. We all know the outcome and its been a long time coming. It will soon be here and we all have to deal with it!

evensocome
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by evensocome » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:34 pm

Kinda OT, but touching on a point in the 2nd to last post on this thread: not everyone in the hobby wants it to grow. Not naming names or making insinuations, just sayin FWIW. Not looking for trouble or an argument. I think those who want to see the hobby grow and those who don't both have valid points and concerns, regardless of my own agreement or lack thereof.

Kissov
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by Kissov » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:07 pm

DHalladay wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:52 pm
I just contacted an attorney who knows that yes, the term VAM in the dollar sense is copyrighted.
From copyright.gov:

Copyright law expressly excludes copyright protection for
“any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation,
concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in
which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied.”
The Office may, however, register a literary, graphic, or artistic description, explanation, or illustration of an idea, procedure, process, system, or method of operation, provided that
the work contains a sufficient amount of original authorship.
However, copyright protection will extend only to the original expression in that work and not to the underlying idea,
methods, or systems described or explained.

Example:
An author writes a book explaining a new system for food processing. The copyright in the
book prevents others from copying or distributing the text and illustrations describing the
author’s system as expressed in the book, but it does not give the author the right to prevent
others from employing the system or from using any procedures, processes, or methods
described in the book.

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by DHalladay » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:14 pm

Kissov:

Great. You know everything there is about this situation. I yield..
When in doubt... don't.

Kissov
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by Kissov » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:41 pm

DHalladay wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:14 pm
Kissov:

Great. You know everything there is about this situation. I yield..
No need for sarcasm.

I was simply pointing out that copyright protection is not at play here.

I will repeat myself:
It is testimony to the discipline of the VAM community that LVA continues to be the central clearinghouse for the official position on VAMs.

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vampicker
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by vampicker » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:38 am

I daresay we have strayed pointlessly into the weeds on a couple of fronts here. Leroy is very much alive and still writing. The world as we know it has temporarily changed and some of you are just going to have to wait just like everyone else. It's his work and system and there will be zero, and I mean zero VAM baton passing until he says so.
I think the point a couple of people tried to make was that no one owns the right to varieties. If you write a work that supersedes the existing work, people will use your numbers until they are themselves superseded. Case in point, a few years back I did a detailed study of all of the known 89-CC die marriages. At every point I could, I cross referenced the marriages to VAM numbers. However 2 marriages, including the most common one, were not listed in the VAM book or its update. I published my findings and for a couple of years there were 89-CC varieties known as Roberts-5 and 6. Later Van Allen included these in his update and we now know them as VAMs 5, 5A and 6. All of us are free to write original material and work in our own name. We do not have any business creating new numbers in someone else's name.

And seriously, Van Allen having to stay socially distant has nothing -nothing- to do with the current market. Nothing drives the market like competition. A big chunk of that is driven by registry sets. If you are complaining about the state of the market and you are not participating in one of the several registry programs, you're just blowing smoke up all of our asses.
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

colwillys
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by colwillys » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:52 am

Well put JR now I know were the smokes is coming from out of my ears .. I love the way you put the last sentence . :mrgreen: :roll: .

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by RMG1883CC » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:07 am

Lots of wisdom there JR, appreciate you sharing. I also think some people should take into consideration the health of both Leroy and his wife and that this situation In our new world would be devastating for either one of them. As some of you know I happen to understand dealing with some health issues and needing to stay safe. Maybe a little compassion for their health and age should be more important than Coins. If down the road things are past on to two or three of our members, so be it. Just let Leroy lead the way. Honesty and fairness will be important if we let it happen the right way. Be patient! Have respect, some comments are from some very new people. Think about it.

Bullshit , politics and backstabbing will be eliminated if we do it right. There are a few ways that in my opinion wouldn’t work well but that’s a whole New thread.

Thanks JR —

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by indian4 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:36 pm

I figured out a long time ago that I'm better off selling used cars if I want to get rich. I have found most everybody here to be kind and helpful. On occasion we seem to run across someone who has their jock strap in a wad, but that is rare. When I first started vamming back in 2013, folks were patient and taught me how to use a process that had been working for a long time. I have a few VAMs under my belt and I have always done them the same way. Vette them here, get opinions from the OGs, and after that, send them to Leroy if necessary. I do this for fun and my hat is off to anybody who can do it for a living. I don't think I'll live that long. :D

In the meantime I just keep plugging away and occasionally find a new one, JB, JR, Mitch and all the others I am too lazy to list, have taught me a lot and I appreciate it. I am self quarantining for myself and my wife , so I understand Leroy's motivation.
I can can wait on Leroy. Some day we won't have him. I get that too
I hate this fracking coin...for now

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by RMG1883CC » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:16 am

Nice Ron

davidkclose
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by davidkclose » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:35 pm

What I am doing, and would encourage others to do, is keeping track of coins I believe to be new discoveries, using my own numbering system. In doing so, I have found several listings which need to be killed.
I am in no hurry, understanding that 2020 may be "lost year" with regard to VAM discoveries. Patience is the key, with COVID taking priority at this point. Part of the advantage of this site is collaboration with others, let us use it to our maximum benefit.
David

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by jrfaust » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:47 pm

Well said Doc! :D
Who is John Galt?

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by vamsterdam » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:01 am

I talked to leroy for awhile a few days ago. It was very upsetting call. Marilyn has had additional health problems that caused them to move from a house, that was connected to the facility, into a 2 bedroom apartment. Because of the coronavirus rules, they have been stuck eating in their apartments with no socialization, as food is delivered in plastic containers 3 times a day. All social events were cancelled and trips anywhere. Recently the dining area opened back up but they only allow one to a table(but husband and wife can sit together. Because of the coronavirus rules, no one was allowed to help Leroy move from a house into a 2 bedroom apartment. It took him 5 weeks, and he started april 19. He and marilyn are in good spirits despite what they have gone thru. He is not quite ready to start doing coins yet. His computer is not hooked up. He finished the vam updates, and 1878s document, and a 1921 gouge book. Because he is not considered an essential employee, he has not been able to get anything printed. This is the short version. This call really upset me. Knowing that i am not allowed to help them, and knowing what they have been dealing with just really tore me up. I may talk about more later but i am done for the night.

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by Tekkie1 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:47 am

That's really hard to hear. They have more pressing things than anything coin related right now.
The only good from that report is that they're in high spirits. I wish them well and all the best.

Thanks for the update Brian.

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by DHalladay » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:48 am

I looked at an old issue of The View recently and did some math. Leroy is 88 this year.
When in doubt... don't.

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by PacificWR » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:56 am

vamsterdam wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:01 am
I talked to leroy for awhile a few days ago. It was very upsetting call. Marilyn has had additional health problems that caused them to move from a house, that was connected to the facility, into a 2 bedroom apartment. Because of the coronavirus rules, they have been stuck eating in their apartments with no socialization, as food is delivered in plastic containers 3 times a day. All social events were cancelled and trips anywhere. Recently the dining area opened back up but they only allow one to a table(but husband and wife can sit together. Because of the coronavirus rules, no one was allowed to help Leroy move from a house into a 2 bedroom apartment. It took him 5 weeks, and he started april 19. He and marilyn are in good spirits despite what they have gone thru. He is not quite ready to start doing coins yet. His computer is not hooked up. He finished the vam updates, and 1878s document, and a 1921 gouge book. Because he is not considered an essential employee, he has not been able to get anything printed. This is the short version. This call really upset me. Knowing that i am not allowed to help them, and knowing what they have been dealing with just really tore me up. I may talk about more later but i am done for the night.
Sounds like they moved from independent living to assisted living. It’s the next step in Nursing home care. Marilyn should be seen by a nurse on a daily basis. Leroy should have some help with his wife now. Unreal he had no help in moving. That should not have happened…virus or no virus. They have people there that help move folks when this happens. My mother in-law has been in assisted living for 5 years and it has worked out very well.

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by blh74 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:11 am

Thanks Brian. I am glad to hear they are in good spirits. It is incredible to make the elderly folks make that move with no help. He is a remarkable human being to still do the work he does. He will never be forgotten.

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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by messydesk » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:20 am

Troubling to hear. I wish them both the best, but I can't get over how cheesed I am that nobody was allowed to help them move. Would anyone have been allowed to help him up had he fallen with something? I admire that he is in good spirits. I can't say that I would be feeling the same in those circumstances.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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