is leroy available to play with coins yet?

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
pup_picker
Posts: 79
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is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by pup_picker » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:24 pm

the sticky is still at the top with no update.

thanks

DHalladay
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by DHalladay » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:19 pm

It seems not.
I've had a batch in with him since December, but my #1 priority is that he and Marilyn stay safe.
When in doubt... don't.

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messydesk
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by messydesk » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:06 pm

I'll post an update when I hear one.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

colwillys
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by colwillys » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:26 pm

My batch has been out since Jan . Just waiting .. LVA and Marilyn have to play it safe .
Dennis I think we mite be the only 2 with coins out to LVA .. I did get a post card Feb coins are safe .
LVA's e-mail is down , message would not send . Hoping to here any day .

DHalladay
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by DHalladay » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:57 pm

colwillys wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:26 pm
My batch has been out since Jan . Just waiting .. LVA and Marilyn have to play it safe .
Dennis I think we mite be the only 2 with coins out to LVA .. I did get a post card Feb coins are safe .
LVA's e-mail is down , message would not send . Hoping to here any day .

I also received a postcard.
I can wait.
When in doubt... don't.

Options25
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by Options25 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:11 am

I've been around a while, but never asked. I've probably got 6 or so that I think warrant another look for designation.

I obviously don't want to waste Leroys time if I am missing the vam or a pup. What should procedure be for those we think could be but may not be something new. I did get my first discovery a little while back but I sent 4 coins and the other 3 were duh, not worthy of sending. Should we

Post here for feedback?
Send to someone like jb for vss service?
Send to Anacs for grade and attribution?

Feedback is appreciated.

colwillys
Posts: 737
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:39 pm

Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by colwillys » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:06 am

Post your coins here at V W first .. Full photos of OBV and REV , good clear photos .. Second send JB Third send to
ANACS for JR .

morganman
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by morganman » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:51 am

For yrs now i have spoken out about having one person controlling any business or venture,
withot some help or backup. Here its all pretty hush hush, we dont talk of these things as LVA
Makes all decisions. Bullshit, he most likely needs help and the SSDC is sleeping i think

If the membership wants vams to survive they better speak out and have powers that be
get their butts in gear, providing good direction/plans and leadership, not a good ol boys
club that has a few power trip jerks

Blast me if you must but this is ridiclous IMHO. Watch vams tank further withot some
type of decent plan for future. Get the old guard out and get some decent thinking proactive
people. Im not saying all directors are idiots, just a couple or so IMHO IMHO
:|

blh74
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by blh74 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:17 am

Morganman has a reasonable point. I am sure there are many members here that would qualify to take the lead.

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messydesk
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by messydesk » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:12 pm

blh74 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:17 am
Morganman has a reasonable point. I am sure there are many members here that would qualify to take the lead.
This has been brought up repeatedly, and every time I have to restate that this is Leroy's task, and his alone until he or his heirs decide otherwise.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

DHalladay
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by DHalladay » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:31 pm

messydesk wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:12 pm
blh74 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:17 am
Morganman has a reasonable point. I am sure there are many members here that would qualify to take the lead.
This has been brought up repeatedly, and every time I have to restate that this is Leroy's task, and his alone until he or his heirs decide otherwise.

How much more clearly does this have to be stated?
How many more times does it have to be repeated?
When in doubt... don't.

weth
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by weth » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:43 pm

To be clear, anyone at any time can "take the lead" by going off and making their own nomenclature. If it is significantly detailed, robust, and helpful, then numismatic community will begin to adopt those naming conventions. Most of us here on VAMWorld respect the time and effort that George and Leroy have put into their study, and although the conventions within the VAM naming system aren't perfect, we wish to work within their confines. That means accepting Leroy's schedule and methods for how he wishes to revise his already massive set of die listings.

To express disdain for how Leroy is handling the listing set that he created is galling hubris.

vamsterdam
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by vamsterdam » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:05 pm

i will call him today and see if they are ok. it is highly unusual for him to be out of commission this long but he has been busy taking care of marilyn, cooking, laundry, shopping, taking care of the dog, working on vam updates, and a book on 1878s die gouges.

Kissov
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by Kissov » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:21 pm

This has been brought up repeatedly, and every time I have to restate that this is Leroy's task, and his alone until he or his heirs decide otherwise.
What ownership rights are we talking about here? VAM (in the dollar sense) is not trademarked as far as I know. Of course all of the various publications detailing VAMs are copyrighted, but the system itself (the numbers/descriptors associated with a particular coin) is not copyrighted, right? It is a system of classification/organization that describes objects that exist independently of the originator of that system, like the Scott numbers for stamps.

Do the grading/attribution services pay royalties to LVA? Do the EBay listings describing VAMs violate copyright or trademark laws?

I do not think there is anything preventing anyone from designating VAM-xxx, other than the recognition that to do so would thoroughly confuse an already complex system. It is testimony to the discipline of the VAM community that LVA continues to be the central clearinghouse for the official position on VAMs.

But I get morganman's point, and I'm surprised that discussion of this topic appears to be off limits.

And my Google search of "VAM" revealed the following at Wikipedia:

Value-added modeling, an American method of teacher evaluation
VAM - a registered trademark of Vallourec Oil and Gas, France
VAM (bicycling), a measure of rate of climb in bicycle racing (abbreviation for Italian for average ascent velocity)
Vehículos Automotores Mexicanos, a Mexican government-owned automaker
Victoria and Albert Museum in London
Vinyl acetate monomer, a chemical component used for the manufacture of various plastics
Violence against men
Vitt Ariskt Motstånd or White Aryan Resistance (Sweden), a militant neo-nazi group in Sweden between 1991 and 1993
Villa International Airport IATA code

weth
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by weth » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:42 pm

Kissov wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:21 pm
I do not think there is anything preventing anyone from designating VAM-xxx, other than the recognition that to do so would thoroughly confuse an already complex system. It is testimony to the discipline of the VAM community that LVA continues to be the central clearinghouse for the official position on VAMs.
If you want to give a coin a new Breen number, sure you can do that. But what makes it a standard? Who is going to adopt that designation? Since Walter Breen didn't assign it, it's not really a Breen number. Similarly, LVA is currently the sole gatekeeper for any formal VAM designations.

If you want to name a new die variety, go right ahead. Just don't call it a VAM.

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bob259
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by bob259 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:50 pm

If one is concerned with Leroy's lack of time to process coins, one can send them to JB (messydesk) at VSS and get them attributed. If JB decides they are already VAMs he will identify them and slab them. If newly discovered VAMs then they can go to Leroy and JB is good at describing what appears to make it a discovery coin. I'm sure this system would 1) cut down on Leroy's workload, 2) put another very knowledgeable person in the loop and 3) retain Leroy being the final word on what is a new VAM or not. Changing the numbering system would be stupid and screw up everything.

pup_picker
Posts: 79
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by pup_picker » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:08 pm

bob259 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:50 pm
If one is concerned with Leroy's lack of time to process coins, one can send them to JB (messydesk) at VSS and get them attributed. If JB decides they are already VAMs he will identify them and slab them. If newly discovered VAMs then they can go to Leroy and JB is good at describing what appears to make it a discovery coin. I'm sure this system would 1) cut down on Leroy's workload, 2) put another very knowledgeable person in the loop and 3) retain Leroy being the final word on what is a new VAM or not. Changing the numbering system would be stupid and screw up everything.
well said.

i've done this.

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CascadeChris
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by CascadeChris » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:16 pm

bob259 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:50 pm
If one is concerned with Leroy's lack of time to process coins, one can send them to JB (messydesk) at VSS and get them attributed. If JB decides they are already VAMs he will identify them and slab them. If newly discovered VAMs then they can go to Leroy and JB is good at describing what appears to make it a discovery coin. I'm sure this system would 1) cut down on Leroy's workload, 2) put another very knowledgeable person in the loop and 3) retain Leroy being the final word on what is a new VAM or not. Changing the numbering system would be stupid and screw up everything.
Well people shouldn't be shotgunning coins to Leroy to be VAMmed anyway. That was happening at one point and it created huge problems. What you just described is how it should be done, how it is being done outside the errant few new senders to him I believe.

For many years now the process has been to have your coins "vetted" by JB/JR or by posting them here before they are ever seen by Leroy. The only exception is experience. If youre experienced enough to be relatively certain its a coin that should go to Leroy send it, if not post it here or send to JB/JR. And even the more experienced guys still post them here on occasion for review and fresh eyes if they arent relatively certain it should go to Leroy.
Alonzi VW 2.0!

DHalladay
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by DHalladay » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:52 pm

I just contacted an attorney who knows that yes, the term VAM in the dollar sense is copyrighted.
When in doubt... don't.

morganman
Posts: 532
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Re: is leroy available to play with coins yet?

Post by morganman » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:24 pm

It would seem that a few members here mis interpret my post intentions, thinking
i am not a fan of current vam system or LVA,
Make no mistake about it; I love the Vam setup here and LVA is the nicest most knowledgeable
and were honored to have such a gracious gentle giant within our community

That said - Leroy has the rights to Vams and as such is the decision maker on new discoveries,
revisions etc etc. My post is simply an attempt to get members and powers at be thinking and
eventually putting a plan into action to further Vams positive exposure to insure this sport
continues along the already successful protocal. We need thinking/actions outside the box
going forward. I hear the SSDC has a plan- if so- bring it out for review and discussion, as any
good organization should do. One key Vam originator has stated he has a plan to save Vams !!
Sure would love to hear what his plan would be- maybe this would wake up the membership
and result in some fantastic ideas etc

Anyway- Plese rest assured i am a total VW vam weenie advocate - who is strong minded
enough and very business orientated , thus trying to get dialogue/new ideas
for the continued success of this great membership/organization

God Bless to all: Scott The Oregon Collection


T
:|

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