1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

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oldguy
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1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by oldguy » Sat May 09, 2020 3:01 pm

Hi, I found one of the subject coins in my collection. I notice this year is not listed on the rotated die page. Not sure what this means? Fake? Just needs to be added as a newly discovered sample? Thanks

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ljs123
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by ljs123 » Sat May 09, 2020 3:04 pm

How much rotation has occurred?

jgrinz
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by jgrinz » Sat May 09, 2020 3:14 pm

Pictures pictures pictures :-)
Image

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messydesk
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by messydesk » Sat May 09, 2020 3:23 pm

Rotated dies less than 15° are considered within tolerance and aren't typically tracked.
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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Sat May 09, 2020 6:20 pm

I know of only two slightly rotated dies pairs.

The first is VAM-45 Die Pair 9 which when clashed is the VAM-45A. The rotation is CCW when viewed from the reverse, maybe 5 degrees.

The other is VAM-38. It also is rotated about 5 degrees. but CW when viewed from the reverse.

Let me know if you come up with something else.

oldguy
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by oldguy » Sat May 09, 2020 9:33 pm

I will add pictures in the morning. The Morgan is not in very good shape but when I flip to the reverse, it looks like about 15 degrees cw.

oldguy
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by oldguy » Sun May 10, 2020 10:55 am

20200510_054500.jpg
20200510_054500.jpg (154.43 KiB) Viewed 1600 times
Not very good at this picture stuff. The coin in holder is as close to aligned as I could place visually, i.e. the holder and coin obverse were aligned vertically.

oldguy
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by oldguy » Sun May 10, 2020 11:00 am

Hmm, can't seem to rotate picture no matter what I do, so you have to tilt your head 90% to the left to look at it :)
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20200510_054500.jpg
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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Sun May 10, 2020 12:18 pm

If that is a c3 reverse, then it is counterfeit.

oldguy
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by oldguy » Sun May 10, 2020 2:50 pm

For my education, can you tell me why you think that?

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bob259
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by bob259 » Sun May 10, 2020 3:05 pm

Take it out of the holder and weigh it. It just doesn't look right.

jgrinz
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by jgrinz » Sun May 10, 2020 3:10 pm

This may help peoples necks :-)

Looks like a C3 Private made Very High O AKA Counterfeit




1902REv.jpg
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Image

oldguy
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by oldguy » Sun May 10, 2020 4:43 pm

Weight is good, 26.8 grams. I tried again to post obverse but it keeps saying file format not correct even though I have retaken picture multiple times.

oldguy
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by oldguy » Sun May 10, 2020 4:49 pm

A different question, if I want to pursue further, is any of the grading services better than others in terms of a quick cheap way to verify fake or not?

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messydesk
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by messydesk » Sun May 10, 2020 5:02 pm

oldguy wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 4:49 pm
A different question, if I want to pursue further, is any of the grading services better than others in terms of a quick cheap way to verify fake or not?
You've gotten the quickest, cheapest verification money can buy right here. Take a look at the bottom serifs on the letters of UNITED and AMERICA. Very thick compared with a real one. I suspect you'll see the same on the obverse, especially on UNUM. Also, Alan's remark about it being the wrong reverse for a genuine 02-O is correct.
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oldguy
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by oldguy » Sun May 10, 2020 5:10 pm

Ok, thanks, I'll mark it as counterfeit. Do I assume this is at least a real silver slug?

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messydesk
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by messydesk » Sun May 10, 2020 5:24 pm

Probably brass, not silver.
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oldguy
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by oldguy » Sun May 10, 2020 6:01 pm

Ok, I'll see if I can conjure up the old retired engineer in me and check the density.

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Prider358
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by Prider358 » Sun May 10, 2020 6:03 pm

Most fake 'MORGANS' are BRASS and SILVER PLATED, also, slightly thicker than the 3.1mm to get the exact weight. :shock:

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Prider358
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Re: 1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

Post by Prider358 » Sun May 10, 2020 6:06 pm

You can measure with a digi Vernier, or, try the Neodymium test which you'll find on Youtube. The Ping test is also good. :D

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