1902 O Morgan Rotated reverse

[oldguy]

Hi, I found one of the subject coins in my collection. I notice this year is not listed on the rotated die page. Not sure what this means? Fake? Just needs to be added as a newly discovered sample? Thanks

[ljs123]

How much rotation has occurred?

[jgrinz]

Pictures pictures pictures

[messydesk]

Rotated dies less than 15° are considered within tolerance and aren't typically tracked.

[LateDateMorganGuy]

I know of only two slightly rotated dies pairs.

The first is VAM-45 Die Pair 9 which when clashed is the VAM-45A. The rotation is CCW when viewed from the reverse, maybe 5 degrees.

The other is VAM-38. It also is rotated about 5 degrees. but CW when viewed from the reverse.

Let me know if you come up with something else.

[oldguy]

I will add pictures in the morning. The Morgan is not in very good shape but when I flip to the reverse, it looks like about 15 degrees cw.

[oldguy]

20200510_054500.jpg (154.43 KiB) Viewed 1600 times

Not very good at this picture stuff. The coin in holder is as close to aligned as I could place visually, i.e. the holder and coin obverse were aligned vertically.

[oldguy]

Hmm, can't seem to rotate picture no matter what I do, so you have to tilt your head 90% to the left to look at it

[LateDateMorganGuy]

If that is a c3 reverse, then it is counterfeit.

[oldguy]

For my education, can you tell me why you think that?

[bob259]

Take it out of the holder and weigh it. It just doesn't look right.

[jgrinz]

This may help peoples necks

Looks like a C3 Private made Very High O AKA Counterfeit

1902REv.jpg (229.26 KiB) Viewed 1563 times

[oldguy]

Weight is good, 26.8 grams. I tried again to post obverse but it keeps saying file format not correct even though I have retaken picture multiple times.

[oldguy]

A different question, if I want to pursue further, is any of the grading services better than others in terms of a quick cheap way to verify fake or not?

[messydesk]

A different question, if I want to pursue further, is any of the grading services better than others in terms of a quick cheap way to verify fake or not?

You've gotten the quickest, cheapest verification money can buy right here. Take a look at the bottom serifs on the letters of UNITED and AMERICA. Very thick compared with a real one. I suspect you'll see the same on the obverse, especially on UNUM. Also, Alan's remark about it being the wrong reverse for a genuine 02-O is correct.

[oldguy]

Ok, thanks, I'll mark it as counterfeit. Do I assume this is at least a real silver slug?

[messydesk]

Probably brass, not silver.

[oldguy]

Ok, I'll see if I can conjure up the old retired engineer in me and check the density.

[Prider358]

Most fake 'MORGANS' are BRASS and SILVER PLATED, also, slightly thicker than the 3.1mm to get the exact weight.

[Prider358]

You can measure with a digi Vernier, or, try the Neodymium test which you'll find on Youtube. The Ping test is also good.