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looks like a clash but...

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:37 pm
by DHalladay
Can anyone tell me what part of the reverse did it?
And what is the line to the far left, next to Liberty's cap?

DSC_6702.jpg
DSC_6702.jpg (209.71 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

(edited to change "obverse" to "reverse")

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:19 pm
by raynat3
Looks like two clashes and a counter-clash to me.

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:22 pm
by raynat3
Two clashes from right wreath and one counter clash from back of lower cap.

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:52 pm
by DHalladay
raynat3 wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:22 pm
Two clashes from right wreath and one counter clash from back of lower cap.

Thanks very much! :D

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:08 pm
by LateDateMorganGuy
I will reinforce what Ray said. At least that what it looks like to me also.

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:39 pm
by lured_in_again
I have an 1891 o with similar clashing - the wreath area also shows what looks like a counter clash. I might see if i can dig it out later for a pic or two. It was sent to LVA several years back and he said it wasn't worth an additional stage listing. But it does look pretty neat and isn't on all examples of the VAM listing.

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:10 am
by lured_in_again
similar looking clash on obverse?
jae_1891o_17a.obv..jpg
jae_1891o_17a.obv..jpg (115.76 KiB) Viewed 1356 times
where it came from on reverse?
jae_1891o_17a.rev..jpg
jae_1891o_17a.rev..jpg (129.18 KiB) Viewed 1356 times

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:26 pm
by DHalladay
raynat3 wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:22 pm
Two clashes from right wreath and one counter clash from back of lower cap.

How can it be from the wreath?
The wreath is constantly jagged from leaves and berries.
Wouldn't the long, smooth lines of clash be from one of the eagle's wings?

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:20 pm
by lured_in_again
Does your coin show double clashing by the wreath? I could be totally mistaken, but doesn't the counter-clash come from the first strike clash being transferred back onto the same side, and it shows up due to the second clash moving over slightly. The line beside the cap is from the cap and the line beside the wreath leaf is from the leaf. The clashes are harsh enough to imprint the die and clash back during the second episode......................................... or am I way off base?. I need to go look at a known, listed counter-clash. Anyone know a listed one off the top of their head?

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:56 pm
by ljs123
A counter clash that comes to mind is in a different location, 1904-O VAM-35/A/B

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:04 pm
by DHalladay
lured_in_again wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:20 pm
Does your coin show double clashing by the wreath? I could be totally mistaken, but doesn't the counter-clash come from the first strike clash being transferred back onto the same side, and it shows up due to the second clash moving over slightly. The line beside the cap is from the cap and the line beside the wreath leaf is from the leaf. The clashes are harsh enough to imprint the die and clash back during the second episode......................................... or am I way off base?. I need to go look at a known, listed counter-clash. Anyone know a listed one off the top of their head?

Yes. Yes has pretty strong double-clashing by the wreath.
It's 1921-P VAM 3C3.

Re: looks like a clash but...

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:52 pm
by raynat3
Dennis, originally I thought a rotation but I just looked at a couple transparencies and it appears to me it is not rotated but one die shifted slightly about the width of the denticles where one of the outer leaves made the one smooth line headed down across the other two clash lines.