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Hypothetical question---- photo added

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:28 am
by lured_in_again
If you came across a seller's listing that had several of the same VAM but not listed as a VAM in listing, would think they had collected them by random? or possibly came from a roll? Chances of having several in lightly circulated condition ending up back together? Just looking for opinions.... I purchased a small group of 1921Ds a few years back that had 4 identical coins (same VAM) and assumed they were basically uncirculated due to being together as a group. Just wondering what others think??? Just pondering stuff as I begin isolation for 10 of next 12 days. My job remains essential, but the 2nd person usually on duty during day shift has to work from home.... Maybe that's what retirement looks like? Oh no!!!!!

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:44 am
by DHalladay
Several years and many hundreds of BU coins in my 1921-P madness, I long ago abandoned the idea that a given roll would contain many examples of the same VAM. I think the most I have ever seen is 4. But the norm is roughly 2 examples of two or three VAMs and everything else is different. I think this speaks to the idea that coins from multiple coining presses went into a communal bulk bin, which later went into many bags and then many rolls.

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:44 am
by RogerRock
Identical VAMS offered by a seller which are unattributed and uncirculated would seem to have come out
of an original roll ! I have witnessed this before on clashed 1904 O Morgans VAM 35A. Identical VAMS in
random circulated grades from one seller points toward dispersal of a private collection. Of course, these
observations are based on my personal experiences of coin shows, internet purchases, local coin shops, private coin collection purchases, and local coin clubs.

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:51 pm
by RogerB
Long ago and far away, when Morgans came fresh from bags, it was common to find coins from only two die pairs in the same bag. This occurred normally because a mint usually had two presses working on dollars at the same time. Mint HQ allocated dollar manufacture between the mints for each month, so the Superintendents could easily calculate everything needed to fulfill production orders. It was most efficient to smooth the production chain over approximately 22 working days rather than trying to cram everything into the last week.

Rolls of 20 coins, taken from fresh bags, were thus likely to be evenly split between the two die pairs. I once bought 5 rolls of 1900-O coins. They were all BU and almost exactly split between normal and O/CC - I forget which varieties.

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:05 pm
by VamHelsing
Once, also long, long ago I bought a collection that had 2 original rolls of 81-S Morgans.
All but 5 of them were V47s.

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:13 pm
by Longstrider
Is there still such a thing as BU rolls?? Just wondering. I recon if they have been socked away in some persons collection that is now being sold.🐍

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:39 pm
by raynat3
I have regularly seen BU rolls in the past few years with just 2 varieties in the entire roll. I seldom see other than that unless I go to a show where there appears to be many put together rolls. I suppose it depends on who and where you do your buying from.

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:29 pm
by VamHelsing
There's still bags, rarely....

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:33 pm
by bob259
About two years ago, I found a dealer on the bay who was selling a bunch of Morgans all graded but not attributed by ICG. I used to monitor this dealer because he knew nothing about VAMs. I bought 5 1882-0 VAM 32B all in high MS which is a nice VAM. The grading was accurate as they have been crossed over to new slabs. He would stagger his auctions so they closed at different days. The 5 I bought I got really cheap and then a few other VAM collectors saw what I saw and the price went way up so since I already had 5 I stopped buying at the price they were going for. I would say the dealer probably had put up about 15 or so of this VAM in a two week time period. He had sent them all to ICG, so where did they all come from? Rolls he bought?

I would have kept buying them if the price hadn't gone up so high but hey, I got 5 nice high MS ones on the cheap. I have bought other nice VAMs from the same dealer. He has nice coins but not a clue about VAMs. No, I'm not sharing who the dealer is.

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:02 pm
by impairedsquirrel
I think your particular case is one in a million Jon... can you touch them yet?

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:36 pm
by Longstrider
@VamHelsing Hey thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. I try to learn here.🐍

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:47 pm
by messydesk
There are such things as original BU rolls if you consider that they were originally transferred from bags to rolls on the 60s, which was also when roll collecting was popular. These typically have 2 different varieties in them.

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:18 pm
by tbconcrete
There was a run on 78S V17EDS coins in PCGS Holders that hit ebay a few years go. Many are registered in the SSDC. All have sequential numbers on the holders. I suspected that they all came from an old roll. But there is no rule of thumb for bags or rolls. JMHO

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:05 am
by vamsterdam
I saw an original looking rolls of 1879s. they were all vam 017a. he had no idea of the vam but wanted way too much over bid for the roll.

Re: Hypothetical question

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:52 pm
by lured_in_again
Upon arrival, the coins were definitely circulated, but still an interesting group to find 3 of the same VAM offered in a 6 coin lot lot. And they will assist me in my future studies of the date (91o)My photo doesn't really do much for them...
jae_1891o_crack.jpg
jae_1891o_crack.jpg (137.62 KiB) Viewed 1348 times

Re: Hypothetical question---- photo added

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:38 am
by DHalladay
Looks like you made a nice/interesting purchase!

Re: Hypothetical question---- photo added

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:16 am
by messydesk
ThrEE VAM 3A in one lot? Not bad at all! Totally uncharacteristic for a circulated lot to be like that.