1923-S - Little to no rim?

[Windycity]

Odd looking coin - looking for some opinions from the experts. Note that the rim is almost non-existent when looking at the obverse or reverse - planchet seems to simply curve away from field to reeding. Doesn't appear to have post mint damage but I need an explanation from the experts.

[RogerRock]

Pics of the reeded edge needed in order to evaluate.

[Windycity]

Sorry for late response... been out of town. Here are images of reeded rim.

[messydesk]

Most likely the rims weren't upset very well before striking. You see this a lot on 21-S Morgans.

[CascadeChris]

Most likely the rims weren't upset very well before striking. You see this a lot on 21-S Morgans.

Is that what creates the funky 21s "gutter" rims JB? That makes a ton of sense. Why that didnt just auto-click for me before is beyond me

[messydesk]

Most likely the rims weren't upset very well before striking. You see this a lot on 21-S Morgans.

Is that what creates the funky 21s "gutter" rims JB? That makes a ton of sense. Why that didnt just auto-click for me before is beyond me

I think so. Now here's an exercise for you. If rims can be insufficiently upset, they can also be overly upset. What do you think the rim of a finished coin would look like using a planchet with a very strong upset rim?

[CascadeChris]

Most likely the rims weren't upset very well before striking. You see this a lot on 21-S Morgans.

Is that what creates the funky 21s "gutter" rims JB? That makes a ton of sense. Why that didnt just auto-click for me before is beyond me

I think so. Now here's an exercise for you. If rims can be insufficiently upset, they can also be overly upset. What do you think the rim of a finished coin would look like using a planchet with a very strong upset rim?

Crisp & hammered w/ possible finning

[messydesk]

Is that what creates the funky 21s "gutter" rims JB? That makes a ton of sense. Why that didnt just auto-click for me before is beyond me

I think so. Now here's an exercise for you. If rims can be insufficiently upset, they can also be overly upset. What do you think the rim of a finished coin would look like using a planchet with a very strong upset rim?

Crisp & hammered w/ possible finning

But the dies are made with the correct height and shape of the rim, so what should happen to any extra height, or "fin", at the rim of such a planchet when it's struck properly?

[CascadeChris]

I think so. Now here's an exercise for you. If rims can be insufficiently upset, they can also be overly upset. What do you think the rim of a finished coin would look like using a planchet with a very strong upset rim?

Crisp & hammered w/ possible finning

But the dies are made with the correct height and shape of the rim, so what should happen to any extra height, or "fin", at the rim of such a planchet when it's struck properly?

Horizontal finning?

[messydesk]

Crisp & hammered w/ possible finning

But the dies are made with the correct height and shape of the rim, so what should happen to any extra height, or "fin", at the rim of such a planchet when it's struck properly?

Horizontal finning?

How about a groove in the rim?

[CascadeChris]

But the dies are made with the correct height and shape of the rim, so what should happen to any extra height, or "fin", at the rim of such a planchet when it's struck properly?

Horizontal finning?

How about a groove in the rim?

I see where you're going there..

[RogerB]

If all the detail of a normal Peace dollar die were brought up during striking, it would look like the very best satin proof -- but maybe with luster from prior die use -- ? (None are known, however.) It would also have nearly square rims that were flat on the upper surface.

Note that a "fin" results from a mismatch between dies, collar and planchet upset - striking pressure is not directly involved as a cause.

[RogerRock]

The rim is complete on the inside next to the lettering. The lack of horizontal metal displacement
(stretched tops of lettering) confirms a strong raised rim! The rim gutter is wide and convoluted
with normal adjacent reeding. This coin exhibits a struck thru grease and debris contained in the rim gutter
evidenced by protruding reeded rim edges at the extreme edge of the shoulder.