I think Heritage made a BIG mistake

[DHalladay]

Lot #3814 in the Heritage Long Beach Sale this week was an 1882-O/S VAM 4 in PCGS MS64+ CAC.
Heritage advertised it as an uber-rare and valuable VAM 4 EDS.
But the PCGS attribution on the holder simply says "Strong".
It sold for no money in my opinion... just $5,760.

After looking at Heritage's photos, I don't think it is an EDS at all, but just a regular VAM 4.

Herigate V4 EDS.jpg (150.5 KiB) Viewed 9749 times

[CascadeChris]

As an aside, what exactly do the "strong" & "weak" descriptors on PC labels denote?

[DHalladay]

As an aside, what exactly do the "strong" & "weak" descriptors on PC labels denote?

Strongs are VAMs 3 & 4
Weak is VAM 5

[TheYokel]

Definitely not a true EDS.

True EDS doesn't have the horizontal bar fully connecting across the O.

Someone got proper f%!*$'ed...

[collectinsince65]

Where is Scott when you need him? He's our o/s guru. @morganman

[TheYokel]

Where is Scott when you need him? He's our o/s guru. @morganman

You can see where the metal above the crossbar is breaking free. That ain't an EDS. They can finagle nomenclature all they want and say it's a "late EDS"... But for $5,000... That's a sketchy designation at best...

[keydates]

I saw it but could not see vam eds coin
Larry

[HawkeEye]

looks an awful lot like the MM on the 1881-O VAM 5

[vampicker]

Not the EDS. Doesn't look like the bidders thought it was either. The price realized is under full retail for a 'normal' VAM 4 in that grade.
Can't stress this point enough, the three O/S varieties are all actually early die states in that EDS stage. You can tell this thing isn't without looking at the reverse - seriously.

[TheYokel]

Not the EDS. Doesn't look like the bidders thought it was either. The price realized is under full retail for a 'normal' VAM 4 in that grade.
Can't stress this point enough, the three O/S varieties are all actually early die states in that EDS stage. You can tell this thing isn't without looking at the reverse - seriously.

Excuse the diatribe, i know how people feel about state vs stage... You'll know what I mean...

So the o/s eds are true eds and not just an early vam stage made from any random state die?

As in we're talking denticles and details for markers?

So they came from wholey unused dies...? Oh wow, that helps more than an ear picture...

[vampicker]

Yes, believe or not I know what state means

[TheYokel]

Yes, believe or not I know what state means

Whatcha mean JR? I was asking to make sure I was following your last line about the front of the coin. I googled the lot number but only get a Barber and SLQ in results... I can't see what y'all are referring to.

Just trying to follow what you were pointing out about the front...

[vampicker]

MDS

https://coins.ha.com/itm/morgan-dollars ... ail-071515

[TheYokel]

MDS

https://coins.ha.com/itm/morgan-dollars ... ail-071515

Ayyyyye there we go, thank you boss. I never knew that about the o/s series, that is so good for searching! Can't believe that's not pointed out on the pages.

Again, was just asking for my clarification, not yours... Apologies if it came off that way... got excited learning a dirty quick new search tool lol...

[RogerB]

Yet another instance of excessive dependence on the "grading companies" to do the work for everyone else. It's a lot like many "dealers" at shows only know how to "point to a label" and play dead parrot.

[CascadeChris]

Yet another instance of excessive dependence on the "grading companies" to do the work for everyone else. It's a lot like many "dealers" at shows only know how to "point to a label" and play dead parrot.

Every time I hear someone say something along these lines, I wonder what it was like before the TPGS. I've read the tales and heard the stories of the "wild west" atmosphere so when I hear people rag on the dependance of TPGS for some I wonder "What if the TPGS never came to prominence, what would the hobby look like today"

[Geseas]

.....lets try it. On three, everyone crack all your coins out of their slabs...lets see what happens! .... It won't work unless everyone is on board. Just an idea... I would bet everything would work out just fine.

[vampicker]

Pretty sure that's not what Roger is saying. Have you been at a show and tried to talk to a dealer with nothing but slabs? How about when it's one brand only? Ask a question and watch what happens....

[morganman]

Scott; The O/S King made a nice long answer to this post, It didnt post and im not writing
it all over again. Sorry -- This coin definately LDS

All o/s very under appreciated with now Most common as dirt, except vam 4 EDS
that is super rare and nobody cares much. I bought a v4eds IN ICG TPG holder ms61
for dirt cheap- now its in PCGS 61

I had 2500+ examples- sold 1,000 in AU/XF to a telemarketer so collection down to
1500 + or so. Worth about 1/3 as much as 10-12 yr ago- makes me sick!!!!!!!

[impairedsquirrel]

Two things that get me are A) How many dealers still price obvious problem coins for full retail (usually a grade or two higher than what the coin actually would be anyway...) and B) How many (mostly seen on eBay) sellers ignore the problem TPG label and still ask retail or more for the coin).