a LOT to see on 1878-P VAM 17

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DHalladay
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a LOT to see on 1878-P VAM 17

Post by DHalladay » Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:45 pm

LVA's simple description of VAM 17 – "Doubled Reverse" – doesn't come close to doing this coin justice. And the absence of photos on our attribution page showing it needs to be corrected.

I've never owned one of these before; I am amazed at all that is going on back there. There is so much doubling it makes you feel as if your vision is blurring. Here are just some examples:

38587453 bow.jpg
38587453 bow.jpg (238.26 KiB) Viewed 130 times
38587453 wreath.jpg
38587453 wreath.jpg (273.21 KiB) Viewed 130 times
38587453 UN.jpg
38587453 UN.jpg (221.91 KiB) Viewed 130 times
38587453 TATE.jpg
38587453 TATE.jpg (222.64 KiB) Viewed 130 times
Last edited by DHalladay on Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When in doubt... don't.

DHalladay
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: a LOT to see on 1878-P VAM 17

Post by DHalladay » Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:47 pm

And here are 2 shots of we trust, because when I shifted the light just slightly something else popped out:

38587453 we trust 1.jpg
38587453 we trust 1.jpg (263.37 KiB) Viewed 128 times
38587453 we trust 2.jpg
38587453 we trust 2.jpg (265.44 KiB) Viewed 128 times
When in doubt... don't.

shortnock
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Re: a LOT to see on 1878-P VAM 17

Post by shortnock » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:31 am

Nice VAM...darnfine photos.
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UncleGildy
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Re: a LOT to see on 1878-P VAM 17

Post by UncleGildy » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:25 am

ditto - Nice Photos! And ditto - "Lot to see". :) VAM-17 was my first 8TF, bought before I knew what VAMs were. The first Morgan I was able to attribute using VAMWorld.

Years ago, when I noticed all these cool die markers too, I added a note to my spreadsheet: "Mine also has a die break/crack from 2nd T in States to rim and a scratch from w in motto to the same T."

"The VAM-17 is the most common 8 tail feather variety", which may be true, but I agree, there's more going on than you might guess from the v17 listing.

I the the strong polishing line below T in STATES and from wreath to E as well. Tilt the die on that crack above the T in States, and I bet you see a tilt in the fields. Probably too slight to qualify as a field break listing.

I don't see the scuffs from the star and while I have a ton of sharp fine vertical lines coming up from the top of the wings, I don't have that one from wing to O through the edge of s in trust.

Check out the field just above the eagle's right shoulder below his chin. There's a horizontal ripple to it, as if there are a couple very wide very shallow gouges from neck to wing. I'll try and capture a couple photos later.

Thanks for highlighting one of the more interesting mundane varieties ;)

Don't forget to look for that hard scrtach from w in motto to the bottom of the right serif of the 2nd T in STATES.

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UncleGildy
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Re: a LOT to see on 1878-P VAM 17

Post by UncleGildy » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:36 am

Here are a couple pics of the markers you posted, plus a few I mentioned above.
78P_v17_mkr05_Gildy.jpg
78P_v17_mkr05_Gildy.jpg (242.17 KiB) Viewed 92 times
78P_v17_mkr04_Gildy.jpg
78P_v17_mkr04_Gildy.jpg (228.07 KiB) Viewed 92 times
78P_v17_mkr03_Gildy.jpg
78P_v17_mkr03_Gildy.jpg (190.25 KiB) Viewed 92 times
78P_v17_mkr02_Gildy.jpg
78P_v17_mkr02_Gildy.jpg (248.93 KiB) Viewed 92 times
78P_v17_mkr01_Gildy.jpg
78P_v17_mkr01_Gildy.jpg (149.89 KiB) Viewed 92 times

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messydesk
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Re: a LOT to see on 1878-P VAM 17

Post by messydesk » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:34 am

There's a lot to see on most 8TFs. Dirty little secret about the VAM 17 reverse is that you see it clashed on the VAM 42 obverse, but no clashed VAM 17 is known.
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UncleGildy
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Re: a LOT to see on 1878-P VAM 17

Post by UncleGildy » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:07 pm

I had to dig out the VAM Book and check that old 1878-P die marriage chart (p130). A couple VAMWorld searches for the strings like "II/I 5" and "A1f", and I thought I saw things clearly. The OBV die II/I 5 has only been found married to A1f (VAM-17) and B/Al (VAM-42 & 42A).

First of all, the LFCP on the VAM-42 page appears to be the clashed version, letter transfer and all. Is it just for lack of an unclashed VAM-42 photo (A1f + B/Al)?

And if the B/Al obverse did exist in VAM-42 (without clash) first, wouldn't it mean that the clash event leading to 42A occurred with B/AI reverse (the 7/7 TF)?

Now for the confusion - you wrote
Dirty little secret about the VAM-17 reverse is that you see it clashed on the VAM-42 obverse
Hate to ask a stupid question here but, can you explain how I can see the A1f reverse clashed on the VAM-42? Is there information not on VAMWorld that revealed part of VAM-17 A1f reverse on the VAM-42 obverse?

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