Page 1 of 1

1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:08 pm
by Kissov
This is a 1904-O VAM-31.

WIN_20200207_13_03_19_Pro.jpg
WIN_20200207_13_03_19_Pro.jpg (171.73 KiB) Viewed 1550 times
WIN_20200207_13_03_26_Pro.jpg
WIN_20200207_13_03_26_Pro.jpg (171.74 KiB) Viewed 1550 times
WIN_20200207_13_03_56_Pro.jpg
WIN_20200207_13_03_56_Pro.jpg (166.25 KiB) Viewed 1550 times

Is this a collar clash or is something else going on?

WIN_20200207_13_02_52_Pro.jpg
WIN_20200207_13_02_52_Pro.jpg (140.93 KiB) Viewed 1550 times
WIN_20200207_13_02_07_Pro.jpg
WIN_20200207_13_02_07_Pro.jpg (128.86 KiB) Viewed 1550 times

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:28 pm
by Albannach
I see it on both LFPC's on the page...I would really hate to see another 1882 1E debacle.

Alan, I'm sure has some insight for you. Alan?

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:41 am
by LateDateMorganGuy
I have 3 VAM-31s in the "Alan's Unofficial and Self-Appointed VAM Reference Set". I have little white stickers on them with EDS, MDS and LDS.

The only one that kinda looks like this is the EDS. The MDS and LDS coins do not show any of this type of stuff. Based on your photo, I would say your coin is a die state between my EDS and MDS.

I am not sure I would call it a collar clash. I usually don't look for such things. It looks to me more like a coin slide on ejection, but others may want to chime in with other opinions,

Here are photos of the EDS in the same area.

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:23 pm
by Kissov
Thanks for the information.

The area shown previously runs from about 9 o'clock to about 11 o'clock. There is a similar rim feature from about 1 o'clock to about 3 o'clock.

WIN_20200208_08_17_19_Pro.jpg
WIN_20200208_08_17_19_Pro.jpg (148.82 KiB) Viewed 1505 times

The symmetry of the marks does suggest some sort of ejection damage.

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:33 am
by Kurt28
Most of mine were a little mushy, but this one indicates a distinct terminus.

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:08 pm
by CascadeChris
The way I personally differentiate collar clashes from what Kurt is seeing is the lack of a line connecting them. Collar clashes tend to be evenly and symmetrically spaced crescent "divots" as opposed to a wavy linked line. Just my personal opinion. What causes the issue we are seeing in the OP (and that is quite common) is unknown to me but perhaps it is some sort of "ejection poop" as Alan suggests. Maybe @vampicker or @messydesk know for sure or have differing theories..

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:19 pm
by vampicker
I have an opinion

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:44 pm
by Kissov
vampicker wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:19 pm
I have an opinion
And that opinion is...?

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:00 am
by vampicker
negative about this type of listing in general

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:48 am
by messydesk
vampicker wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:00 am
negative about this type of listing in general
Same here.

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:08 am
by Kurt28
I don't see where this feature is a collar clash.
And maybe I'm beating a dead horse, but I like to look at the details.
In the case of VAM-31, the feature appears to have been repeated.
Maybe its in the die, maybe in the ejection, or something else.
Close inspection shows some similarities to what I have been calling a partial cud.
If it weren't for the consistent location, I might consider a variation of the wire rim.
Just fishing.
A few photos for your pleasure.

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:40 pm
by Kissov
vampicker wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:00 am
negative about this type of listing in general
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you implying that the question should not have been asked?

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:43 pm
by vampicker
I refuse to be impressed by collar clashes in general. It's nothing specific to you or the present discussion.

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:48 pm
by CascadeChris
vampicker wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:43 pm
I refuse to be impressed by collar clashes in general. It's nothing specific to you or the present discussion.
I was picking up what you were laying down.. My general feel on them too. Hell, I dont even look and if I happen to see one I dont even check for a split cuz i wouldn't send it to Sidney anyway.

That said, what do you think forms that wavy line thingymabob?

Re: 1904-O VAM-31 Collar Clash?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:55 pm
by vampicker
I'd imagine Dan Carr might have more insight, but I think this is from a little slop between the hammer die and collar.