Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

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messydesk
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Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

Post by messydesk » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:01 am

I just got an e-mail from Roger Burdette with this letter from the Mint Director to the CC mint regarding defective reverse dies
October 13, 1880

Jas. Crawford, Esq,
Supt. U. S. Mint
Carson, Nev.

Sir:

In reply to your letter of the 25th ultimo [Sept. 25], transmitting a copy of a letter from the Coiner of your Mint, in which that officer complains of defective engraving on 39 reverse standard dollar dies rendering them unfit for use, I have to state that these die were struck from a hub early in the calendar year 1878. This hub was prepared under great pressure, and was known to be imperfect, but as it was considered to be desirable that the mints should commence the coinage of standard dollars with as little delay as possible, dies from it were sent you, together with a letter of instructions stating substantially the difficulties that you would encounter in their use, on April 8, 1878.

You will therefore make no attempt to employ any of the dies referred to, but destroy them at the appointed times and report the fact to this office.

I enclose you two dollars, the equivalent of the defective coins sent by you to illustrate the dies.

Very respectfully,
Horatio C. Burchard,
Director
(RG104 E-235 Vol. 23)
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vamsterdam
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Re: Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

Post by vamsterdam » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:24 am

Either he didn’t listen, or ??

dave700x
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Re: Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

Post by dave700x » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:49 pm

Necessity is the mother of invention and coining of 1880-CC Morgan Dollars?
1883-O nut

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messydesk
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Re: Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

Post by messydesk » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:12 pm

vamsterdam wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:24 am
Either he didn’t listen, or ??
Could also be that the Coiner was different from the one that was first told about the difficulties in using the PAF dies and wasn't told about the letter of 4/1878. This might be the first time CC was told explicitly not to use the PAF dies, though.

Interesting how many dies were shipped vs. how many were actually used. I would have to think there was an expected "spoilage" rate that would arise from final die hardening and preparation at the branch mints that necessitated sending so many dies, ensuring that production wouldn't be interrupted waiting for new dies to arrive. 39 leftover reverse dies is a lot, considering only 15 or so (@vampicker knows the exact number) reverse dies were used in 1878.
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Longstrider
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Re: Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

Post by Longstrider » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:46 pm

This is VERY interesting. The things to be learned here are amazing. Talk about a 1880's flowery lawyer speak for knock it the hell of..Thanks all. John🐍

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Re: Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

Post by vamsterdam » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:16 pm

And what was the defective engraving, being that they were r’78, low relief reverses, or something else?

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messydesk
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Re: Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

Post by messydesk » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:32 pm

The defective bit was probably just them being B reverses.
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vampicker
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Re: Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

Post by vampicker » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:48 pm

Sixteen reverse dies were actually used for the 78-CC coinage. Two others with the Reverse of 78 were used for the 80-CC. They are not dies that were used in 1878.
The present letter is only part of a chain of correspondence that Neil Shafer found in the National Archives around 1964. Excerpts of the exchange are published in 'Whitman Numismatic Journal' Nov 1964. Shafer's article is the basis for the hub descriptions Van Allen and Mallis adopted for their work.
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vampicker
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Re: Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

Post by vampicker » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:48 pm

And yes, the defect is the Reverse of 78 itself
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Re: Letter to CC mint regarding 1880 Rev. '78

Post by vampicker » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:51 pm

This is the cover
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whit num journal nov64.jpg
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