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Die Polishing

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:44 pm
by lioncutter
I see it often in the Morgan and Peace Series. Do we know exactly what tool or item they used to polish the dies? Did it change over time any? Was it done by hand? My mind wants to know. :?:

Re: Die Polishing

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:40 am
by alefzero
Whatever the tool, it is responsible for expensive grading failures when obvious die polish is mistaken for abrasive cleaning from a 5-second review by a lazy grader.

Re: Die Polishing

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:20 am
by morganman
and we see the polishings - all the time killed grade by TPG
A REAL OPPERTUNITY- ON more expensive high grade Morgans- to buy-regrade
and re sell - sometimes to PL/DMPL - with huge profits
I do this all the time- ITS A BLAST- and terrible for poor sellers
PICKIN 101 on these -takes a lot of looking in particular 1880 s/1881 s ms64/66
that are really PL or DMPl. Thats why i get paid the Big Bucks A niche to $$$$$$

Re: Die Polishing

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:42 am
by messydesk
It's explained in pretty good detail on p. 58 of the VAM book, although it omits the use of an emery stick to selectively polish out clash marks. Short answer is spinning the with some polishing grit with the die face held against dished plate. The book From Mine to Mint should have even more detail, but it's not with me at the moment.

Re: Die Polishing

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:52 am
by CascadeChris
alefzero wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:40 am
Whatever the tool, it is responsible for expensive grading failures when obvious die polish is mistaken for abrasive cleaning from a 5-second review by a lazy grader.
Out of all the heavily scrubbed dies that I've sent in, at least a few dozen plus another hundred+ with noticable but light polishing, I've never had that problem. Not once. I have heard people say that but I've relegated it to mythical status solely from experience... or maybe it was something that was a more common occurrence in days past but no longer perhaps 🤔

Re: Die Polishing

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:43 pm
by messydesk
I think the heavily polished ones are obvious enough that they merit a close-enough look to verify they are die polishing lines. There are some that I have seen come back from bulk orders unholdered that have light die polishing patches here and there that I think might have deceived a grader or two here or there.

Re: Die Polishing

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:52 pm
by CascadeChris
messydesk wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:43 pm
I think the heavily polished ones are obvious enough that they merit a close-enough look to verify they are die polishing lines. There are some that I have seen come back from bulk orders unholdered that have light die polishing patches here and there that I think might have deceived a grader or two here or there.
I can see that happening with the errant, singular "patch" type of polishing lines. Especially at speed with bulk subs if your theory is correct that they scan and separate the no-grades from the tubes first.

Re: Die Polishing

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:38 pm
by lioncutter
messydesk wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:42 am
It's explained in pretty good detail on p. 58 of the VAM book, although it omits the use of an emery stick to selectively polish out clash marks. Short answer is spinning the with some polishing grit with the die face held against dished plate. The book From Mine to Mint should have even more detail, but it's not with me at the moment.
Thanks for the info. That is a book (From Mine to Mint) I have been contemplating getting. I really like the Morgans and Peace dollars that have it entirely on the full obverse or reverse.

Re: Die Polishing

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:58 pm
by alefzero
CascadeChris wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:52 pm
messydesk wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:43 pm
I think the heavily polished ones are obvious enough that they merit a close-enough look to verify they are die polishing lines. There are some that I have seen come back from bulk orders unholdered that have light die polishing patches here and there that I think might have deceived a grader or two here or there.
I can see that happening with the errant, singular "patch" type of polishing lines. Especially at speed with bulk subs if your theory is correct that they scan and separate the no-grades from the tubes first.
It is, or has been, a problem with slabbed crossovers. An example is an 1889-S VAM-13 NGC 65 I had. The upper left field (forehead area) is a lot of fine polish lines that are perhaps not visible in all grades and die states, but very much what they are. The common Top 100 1880-S VAM-8 also presents with die polish that looks like cleaning if only casually examined. Prooflikes present compounded crossover problems, not just due to differences in standards but because abrasions and scratches on the slab plastic take a good look to make sure they are not on the coin. I had an ICG (their slabs are scuff magnets) that was just impossible to determine the status of the coin. Tempted to crack it out but did not. (Of the thousands of submissions over the years, I have only cracked out two coins.)