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1887P Doubling

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:05 am
by Tennessee
I have a 1887P with doubling on the reverse. I can't find anything or I've missed the correct Vam. I have doubling on the One Dollar and United States of America. Any help or advice you can give me is appreciated. My photos are not the best, but these are the best my phone takes. Thanks

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:45 am
by TheYokel
Can i see the date/obverse?

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:11 am
by Tennessee
I hope this helps.

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:21 am
by Tennessee
Here is more. Looks like there's some doubling of the wreath too.

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:26 am
by TheYokel
Check your 1 doubling against 4A, 11, and 31 for me.

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:39 am
by CascadeChris
Its technically called "DDD" Die Deterioration Doubling. As the die ages the metal start to fail around the edges of the devices and you get a Sunken collapsed area that mimics doubling. It's not hub doubling that would be mentioned in a VAM description but if it is severe enough on Morgans it can get listed as a separate die stage of a known die pair.

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:27 pm
by Tennessee
Obverse date 1

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:53 pm
by hallco
Looks like an 11. One of your pictures seems to show the chip where the branch and arrow shafts cross. May just be a shadow though.

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:56 pm
by tmanhg
VAM 11.

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:41 am
by Tennessee
Thank you everybody for your response. Can this one as CascadeChris was talking about if it is severe enough, get listed as a separate die stage of a known die pair? Do I need more or better photos? Thank you all... Tennessee....🤔

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:08 am
by morganman
1887 has a lot of doubling vams- I always look for date position & date doubling
then to other areas for doubling /and any clashing episodes
On Morgans always check date position= near date/far date/normal
Yours is far date-3 + reeds over from bust point
I didnt bother to attrib as vam 11 -but look at your far date vams with the doubling
your seeing and i bet walla.

1887 has tons of vams so date position is critical most times

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:49 pm
by hallco
morganman wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:08 am
1887 has a lot of doubling vams- I always look for date position & date doubling
then to other areas for doubling /and any clashing episodes
On Morgans always check date position= near date/far date/normal
Good advice. Also, if you are not familiar with date positioning, there is great information in the "Attribution 101" link on the main VW page. It sometimes takes a while to understand the subtle differences unless it is extreme one way or the other. Have fun! :)

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:33 pm
by TheYokel
Tennessee wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:41 am
Thank you everybody for your response. Can this one as CascadeChris was talking about if it is severe enough, get listed as a separate die stage of a known die pair? Do I need more or better photos? Thank you all... Tennessee....🤔
To answer: I'd send it if I had others going and had space. Listable? Up to LVA... But he'd most likely appreciate having an example to catalogue and photo, nonetheless.

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:50 pm
by tmanhg
Why would you want another listing? VAM 11 is already listed for the doubling. It would be a waste of time and money in my opinion.

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:55 pm
by ljs123
tmanhg wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:50 pm
Why would you want another listing? VAM 11 is already listed for the doubling. It would be a waste of time and money in my opinion.
I agree with you John.
It is already photographed and cataloged.

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:09 am
by Tennessee
Thank you my Vammer friends. I'm checking out the 101. I hadn't been on here for awhile, until last week. I've been working long hours. I'll leave it up to you all as if you want to add it or not to 1887s. Either way it's fun looking for Vams and little differences on Morgan and Peace Dollars. Also I also just invested a few weeks ago in the Comprehensive Catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan and Peace Dollars by Leroy C. Van Allen & A. George Mallis Fourth Edition. I love it. I'm learning about things I didn't know. Thanks again you all. Happy Vam'n...😎

Re: 1887P Doubling

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:21 am
by TheYokel
tmanhg wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:50 pm
Why would you want another listing? VAM 11 is already listed for the doubling. It would be a waste of time and money in my opinion.
Who said anything about doubling...