1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

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sdaws6249
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1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by sdaws6249 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:32 pm

I have a question before I waste time and space uploading pics....

I have an 1887P that is absolutely a VAM 6 or 6A.... my problem is ....there isNO gouge on the left side of the first 8 as described in the 6A description (matches VAM 6 description obverse) , but it DOES have the gouge on the tail feather as described on the 6A. (Matches VAM6A on reverse)

This coin may cause some issues with the naming of the 6 and 6A...

Has anyone else seen this???
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andywoj00
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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by andywoj00 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:44 pm

Try to post some clear pics of the date. May be helpful to "diagnose"......Andrew

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sdaws6249
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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by sdaws6249 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:59 pm

As I said I am sure of the base attribution.. all aspects match up, the date position, the file lines in E and R of LIBERTY, the dot on the eagles right inner wing feather level with 7th from the bottom outer feather.... I just can't reconcile the no chip on the left loop of the first 8 and the gouge under the 3rd from the viewers right tail feather???

see images below...


Image


Image
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sdaws6249
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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by sdaws6249 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:21 pm

HMMM did someone make some recent changes to the 6 and 6a pages? I no longer see the links to the old threads and some of the VAM 6 description appears different (or am I finally totally losing my mind???) :?
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LorenAlbert
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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by LorenAlbert » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:15 pm

http://www.vamworld.com/page/history/1887-P+VAM-6
http://www.vamworld.com/page/history/1887-P+VAM-6A

There do not appear to have been changes made since March 9 and 7 of 2017 (Hmmmmm).

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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by RMG1883CC » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:03 pm

DITTO -All I SAW TOO,,,,,,

tmanhg
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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by tmanhg » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:43 pm

I think it has to do with the die life. The earlier stage of VAM 6A do not have the chip. I know the description on the page say it has but I have several that do not. I have one that has a chip on the right side of the first 8 and nothing on the left side. I looked at 6 VAM 6A's.

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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by tmanhg » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:45 pm

I also pulled my MS64 VAM 6 and it does not have the chip.

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sdaws6249
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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by sdaws6249 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:10 pm

So it does appear there are multiple 6A's without the chip... ... as for the die's state being early and no chip on the obverse, it makes perfect sense earlier stages would not have the chip... But, for conversation... below is an image of the reverse of my coin showing what appears to be later stage polishing on that die....

I am reaching here so please allow me a bit of latitude just to start a conversation... Could the die chip on the left side of the 8 actually be present on my coin but have some sort of grease fill???? <<< this would explain the later appearing reverse die...??? Just a thought!

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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by messydesk » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:55 pm

tmanhg wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:43 pm
I think it has to do with the die life. The earlier stage of VAM 6A do not have the chip. I know the description on the page say it has but I have several that do not. I have one that has a chip on the right side of the first 8 and nothing on the left side. I looked at 6 VAM 6A's.
Die chips don't move from one place to another. If you have a coin with a chip on the right side of the 8 and nothing on the left, it is a different obverse from one with a chip on the left and nothing on the right. Make sure the reverses are the same.

For the coin question, the specification is that if there is a gouge, it's VAM 6A. The "low far date" position is rather marginal. From the pictures on the VAM pages, it doesn't look particularly far or low. It's also a description that is just asking for a "multiple dies exist" situation. Juan A. has studied this date quite a bit, so hopefully he'll chime in.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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sdaws6249
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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by sdaws6249 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:15 pm

Die chips don't move from one place to another. If you have a coin with a chip on the right side of the 8 and nothing on the left, it is a different obverse from one with a chip on the left and nothing on the right. Make sure the reverses are the same.

All of the pictures I have seen (my subject coin here included) seem to have the chip on the right of the first 8... I believe the discussion here is more on the timing of the emergence of the chip on the left side of the 8, as that chip is part of the "official" description of the VAM (6 and 6A) no mention at all of the chip on the right of the 8.
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tmanhg
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Re: 1887 P VAM 6 or 6A

Post by tmanhg » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:28 pm

The coin originally discovered was what is now the VAM 6A. All my coins have some small die chip on the right side of the first 8 as you said Steve. I think the stronger the gouge under the tail feathers the less of a chip in the 8.
I believe the VAM 6 description needs to be updated.

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