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Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:42 pm
by Kissov
I was working up a 21-P VAM-88A and noticed that the photos in the "second specimen" section looked very much like VAM-1BQ. The parallel scratches in the scribbles area and the scratch to the right of the bow appear to match, among other things.

I think 1BQ is still valid, but the 88A page may have photos of a 1BQ.

So I guess we need the discovery coin for 88A to verify.

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:38 pm
by tmanhg
Looks like the 88, 88A and 1BQ might be of the same die. The wear lines on the second 88A specimen look like the discovery coin pics. It also has the die markers like the 1BQ in the scribbles area. IMHO

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:05 pm
by Kissov
I don't have an example of an 88, but based on the photo the polish lines along the upper side of the arrow shafts appear to be more or less parallel to the shafts (as are the lines on what I think is an 88A). The polish lines on the 2 1BQs I have are strongly tilted up on the left and down on the right.

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:10 pm
by DHalladay
I have the 1BQ Discovery Coin and I think it and 88A are different.

Admittedly, the 1BQ being a PL makes it extremely difficult (if not impossible) to document any lineage to 88A, since there is a limitless range of possibilities of what could have happened to the dies between PL and the 88A stage... what was on the 1BQ in PL might have worn away, and what is on the 88A might have occurred, well, who knows when.

Assuming that 1BQ and 88A are the same, there are things on my 1BQ in PL that I think should still be on my 88A... but they aren't. And of course, the gouges coming out of the eagle's left leg on 88A aren't on the 1BQ.

Here are some pretty bold things on my 1BQ that are not on my 88A:
90028054 detail bow.jpg
90028054 detail bow.jpg (209.24 KiB) Viewed 164 times
90028054 detail talons.jpg
90028054 detail talons.jpg (167.29 KiB) Viewed 164 times
90028054 detail scribs.jpg
90028054 detail scribs.jpg (171.6 KiB) Viewed 164 times

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:44 pm
by tmanhg
Post by Kissov » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:05 pm

I don't have an example of an 88, but based on the photo the polish lines along the upper side of the arrow shafts appear to be more or less parallel to the shafts (as are the lines on what I think is an 88A). The polish lines on the 2 1BQs I have are strongly tilted up on the left and down on the right.

The 88 and 88a was a two-fer discovery. Does anyone have an 88 that has the markers for 88A? The pics on the 88 page were taken from the 88A discovery coin.

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:15 pm
by Kissov
DHalladay wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:10 pm
I have the 1BQ Discovery Coin and I think it and 88A are different.
My two non-PL examples show all of the markers you showed.

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:23 pm
by Mhomei
My pics of 88A on the page were vetted with the discovery coin for 88A.

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:13 pm
by tmanhg
I do not doubt the attribution of your coin Mitch, but the small gouges in the tail feather area looks like the 1BQ. I do not have an example of either to compare to, just the pics on the pages.

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:24 pm
by Mhomei
No biggy,
hopefully pete will see this he has the 88a DC and Lee has the coin I photographed for the page

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:24 pm
by Mhomei
No biggy,
hopefully pete will see this he has the 88a DC and Lee has the coin I photographed for the page

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-88A

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:46 pm
by tmanhg
I was looking thru some coins and found this one. It has the markers for the 88A but no scribbles.