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Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:19 am
by dave700x
Does the small patch of pitting below tail feathers could be considered a die marker for 1C3?? Can we find it also on 1C2’s??
@vincar73 here is a crop of the lower tail feathers area of my LDS 1C2. I believe the patch that is referenced on the 1C3 page is the one under the second and third tail feather. Hopefully one of the members who have a 1C3 can confirm this is it. @raynat3 ?

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:52 am
by LorenAlbert

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:39 pm
by vincar73
dave700x wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:19 am

@vincar73 here is a crop of the lower tail feathers area of my LDS 1C2. I believe the patch that is referenced on the 1C3 page is the one under the second and third tail feather. Hopefully one of the members who have a 1C3 can confirm this is it. @raynat3 ?
Thanks Dave for verifying
It seems that we could find it on your LDS 1C2 but it seems it isn't there on the 1C3 linked by lorenalbert but on mine 1C3 it's there..

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:05 pm
by dave700x
Loren's example is about the same die state as my example posted. Possibly several strikes prior as the wavy field around the wing tip and small break on the wing tip appear the same but the pits have not (fully?)formed.

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:46 pm
by raynat3
I don’t have access to the 1C3. Will look at pictures to see what I have around tail feathers.

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:12 pm
by CascadeChris
raynat3 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:46 pm
I don’t have access to the 1C3. Will look at pictures to see what I have around tail feathers.
Who owns the 1c3 and is that the only known example extant?

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:12 am
by messydesk
I just posted this picture to the VAM 1C3 page. Shot the picture tonight.

Image

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:18 am
by HawkeEye
Who is Mike Diamond?

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:02 pm
by dave700x
messydesk wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:12 am
I just posted this picture to the VAM 1C3 page. Shot the picture tonight.

Image
Thanks JB. :)

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:23 pm
by messydesk
HawkeEye wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:18 am
Who is Mike Diamond?
Leading specialist in error coinage, author of Coin World's weekly "Collector's Clearinghouse" column, author of error-ref.com.

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:49 am
by UncleGildy
My collapsed die #1 (first buffer) came in the mail today, and I couldn't help myself - I had to take a couple quick pics.
Yes, indeed, it sure was cleaned. In fact it's so bright and shiny I have to squint to try and gauge what the grade would be. But "who cares" - I finally found one. :D

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:55 am
by CascadeChris
The polishing actually makes the collapsed areas kinda pop, in the pic at least. Noice..

Also, FYI, we are kind of trying to stay away from the Buffed or Buffer nickname for these, unfortunately :cry:

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:10 am
by UncleGildy
Thanks Chris.
Yeah, that was the rebel in me I guess. Last chance to use the cute nickname before the change in nomenclature is final. 8-)

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:20 am
by CascadeChris
UncleGildy wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:10 am
Thanks Chris.
Yeah, that was the rebel in me I guess. Last chance to use the cute nickname before the change in nomenclature is final. 8-)
Right :lol:

Its gonna be hard for me too.. I love "Buffer" 😎

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:21 pm
by bigjayvee
Here's some pic's of the one I have. Has the pit patch under the tail feathers and the other noticeable feature you can't miss is the heavy double "N" clash. Tough to get a good pic of wing break on circulated coin,but can see outline of both breaks pretty clear with a loupe. LDS 1C2 or 1C3 :?:
jv 1883 o v1c3 pit 09-15-19.jpg
jv 1883 o v1c3 pit 09-15-19.jpg (149.36 KiB) Viewed 1859 times
jv 1883 o v1c3 n clash 09-15-19.jpg
jv 1883 o v1c3 n clash 09-15-19.jpg (166.36 KiB) Viewed 1859 times
jv 1883 o v1c3 wb 09-15-19.jpg
jv 1883 o v1c3 wb 09-15-19.jpg (117.11 KiB) Viewed 1859 times

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:42 pm
by dave700x
bigjayvee wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:21 pm
Here's some pic's of the one I have. Has the pit patch under the tail feathers and the other noticeable feature you can't miss is the heavy double "N" clash. Tough to get a good pic of wing break on circulated coin,but can see outline of both breaks pretty clear with a loupe. LDS 1C2 or 1C3 :?: jv 1883 o v1c3 pit 09-15-19.jpgjv 1883 o v1c3 n clash 09-15-19.jpgjv 1883 o v1c3 wb 09-15-19.jpg
I would call it 1C2 LDS.

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:49 pm
by raynat3
I did not have any pictures showing the raised metal bumps below tail feathers but not sure the bumps determine if the coin is a 1C3 stage.
4625F382-A594-4E0F-AE72-399009EF267A.jpeg
4625F382-A594-4E0F-AE72-399009EF267A.jpeg (352.15 KiB) Viewed 1854 times

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:57 pm
by bigjayvee
Thanks Dave, so to clarify,having the pit patch present doesn't necessarily mean it's just a feature of the 1C3, or not !!! GOOD STUFF!!!
Wow, Ray, You just beat me to the punch on my post. Just added "Or Not" Now will repost.

Re: First buffed reverse?

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:40 pm
by vamsterdam
I dislike the term "buffed dies." It is an erroneous term that was created because the true cause wasn't know at the time. I have seen this on Indian cents too. I have wanted to talk to Chris Pilliod about this phenomena because he is a metallurgist. To the best of my knowledge, this does occur to poor annealing of the dies. I did have a discussion with someone at a show about this, showing him multiple examples with varying stages. I wish I could have recorded his reaction. I showed how part of the die seemed normal while the rest of it(1889o vam 13b) was crumbling and rippling. and the 1883o vam 1c1, 1c2, and 1c3 show a continual degradation of the die surfaces. I think it was at the ANA. I've done 5 shows since the ANA so it may take awhile to sort out who I talked to and where.