1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
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raynat3
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by raynat3 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:03 pm

VAM 16 shares 1C1 Obverse and VAM 1J shares the 1C2 Obverse. The 1J share is very difficult to see but the pups are there if you look close enough.
1C1 and 1C2.jpg
1C1 and 1C2.jpg (105.56 KiB) Viewed 276 times

dave700x
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by dave700x » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:21 pm

Great photos Ray. I'm guessing the 1J and 16 pairings came before 1C1/1C2.
1883-O nut

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impairedsquirrel
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by impairedsquirrel » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:27 pm

Ray and Dave, have either of you seen a verifiable m clash on a single clasher?
I go totally NUTS for WOW! VAMs!! Or is that from WOW! VAMs?

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raynat3
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by raynat3 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:40 pm

Nothing that I considered an m. The metal is pretty wavy, I could probably see a squirrel or any other thing if I chose to call it that.

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impairedsquirrel
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by impairedsquirrel » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:50 pm

Thanks Ray, that's where I'm at. When the M shows up it is distorted, but fairly obvious.
I was thinking the second clash may have retired the first obverse, but I have a 63PL single clasher with the second obverse.
I go totally NUTS for WOW! VAMs!! Or is that from WOW! VAMs?

Mhomei
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by Mhomei » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:00 pm

Ray
quick question
1C1 comes unclashed and single clashed only?

1C2 Double clashed only?

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impairedsquirrel
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by impairedsquirrel » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:50 pm

Pick me, pick me!
Yes.
I go totally NUTS for WOW! VAMs!! Or is that from WOW! VAMs?

dave700x
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by dave700x » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:36 am

impairedsquirrel wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:50 pm
Thanks Ray, that's where I'm at. When the M shows up it is distorted, but fairly obvious.
I was thinking the second clash may have retired the first obverse, but I have a 63PL single clasher with the second obverse.
A single clasher with the 2nd obverse in PL is a rare one. I would love to see images of that one...
1883-O nut

Mhomei
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by Mhomei » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:42 am

1C1 comes unclashed and single clashed

1C2 comes single clashed and Double clashed

Cool progression for that reverse
So the 1C1 reverse came 1st
1st Unclashed
Then single clashed

Swapped out the obverse 1C2
Existing Single clashed
Then double clashed

Then she started to break up 1C3

So there is 6 stages of these and that's a pretty cool short set all by itself

Great thread guys and thanks for the clarity

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raynat3
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by raynat3 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:17 pm

Mitch I do not have any notes nor do I recall seeing a single clashed 1C2 and don’t have access to my coins at this time.

The VAM 1J appears to me to be the later die state of the obverse used in 1C2. I have only found the 1J with a single weak clash.
24185B5A-E847-44CF-8D98-89EB0C8A40ED.jpeg
24185B5A-E847-44CF-8D98-89EB0C8A40ED.jpeg (146.5 KiB) Viewed 235 times
538D4EB8-33A0-4428-B34E-42370662F5EE.jpeg
538D4EB8-33A0-4428-B34E-42370662F5EE.jpeg (143.44 KiB) Viewed 235 times

dave700x
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by dave700x » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:21 pm

Well, I always thought a 1C2 should have existed single clashed but have never seen one in the 7 years I've been looking. That 1C2 pairing clash must have happened early in that run.

I agree the 1C stages are a cool set.

I'll have to pull out my 1J and have a closer look...

Anyone have any idea why the 1C1 obverse was retired?
1883-O nut

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raynat3
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by raynat3 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:39 pm

Not sure Dave. I have to access the photos on another system for the VAM 16 to confirm if its Obverse came before or after the 1C1. The photos I have now point to after.

This does not make any sense on why heavy clashes are not seen on either the 1J or 16 obverse if they are later die states.

dave700x
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by dave700x » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:47 pm

I think that 1C reverse die was so soft it didn't have any real affect on the obverse dies.

I was going through my images and found this one. The earliest die state example I own. (at the moment)
Attachments
1883-O.1C1.eds.rev.6k.JPG
1883-O.1C1.eds.rev.6k.JPG (518.28 KiB) Viewed 232 times
1883-O.1C1.eds.obv.6k.JPG
1883-O.1C1.eds.obv.6k.JPG (505.18 KiB) Viewed 232 times
1883-O nut

Mhomei
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by Mhomei » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:40 pm

proposed
the 1C1 comes unclashed(VEDS) no clash event on either die, then the V16 could be unclashed as well.
BUT ...... the VEDS reverse die was polished in the fields likely before the die fatigued into the buffed reverse we all love.
so we need to find the pre-fatigued reverse die. and I am thinking it was a clashed reverse because of the location of the
reverse polish lines.
lets look at the the bearded eagles for possible shared reverse with 1C series

Mhomei
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Re: 1883 O VAM 1C1 or 1C2?

Post by Mhomei » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:29 pm

here is the MM that I am looking for a match
1883-O-V1C1-MM-800.JPG
1883-O-V1C1-MM-800.JPG (400.13 KiB) Viewed 225 times

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