Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

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alefzero
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by alefzero » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:20 am

Wondered if this might be an artifact from a fault at the draw bench that carried through to the planchet. The usual problem we see are die striations, that present as parallel grooves (often visible on Liberty's cheek or the eagle's breast. They survive the minting on the high points. This is different, but could be a different problem. A sizable cud will generally starve other devices. That could be the denticle issue on the reverse, but it does not look like that. Hard to figure out based on images. Be interesting to hear what JR sees in the piece.

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messydesk
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by messydesk » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:52 pm

We can all hope to have the energy to polish 55 mailboxes when we're 85.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

vamsterdam
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by vamsterdam » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:50 pm

I just reread this letter and I am not happy at all. I never once said this coin was a cud! I told Russ it was a damaged coin, and that there was no way it could be a cud! How could my comments ever be construed as supporting this coin as a legitimate error??

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vampicker
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by vampicker » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:08 pm

I posted the letter I sent Leroy along with his letter. My observations are the 7 bullet points. After reading Van Allen's response, I stand by the concerns I raised.
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

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CascadeChris
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by CascadeChris » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:20 pm

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Alonzi VW 2.0!

twohawks
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by twohawks » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:54 pm

While I really do not understand what happened to this coin. I cant think of a way to manufacture this effect. The coin clearly has PMD, with that said the inside areas of the lettering show no tooling. Some of the areas I am speaking about are a tight as a needle point. I have taken a few really bad 1921 Morgan CUL's and have heated them and even to the point of melting them with 3 different gas types, and with a fine jewelers torch, in every case the whole coin is effected when trying to melt it. and over 1/2 is damaged when trying to just soften the metal.

The lack of tool marks remain a problem for me, the edge damage on the reveres looks more like a dropped coin and I have a few that I own, but it look like the reverse was played with all the same. The reeding on the side of the coin for the most part is intact.

I would love to try reproducing this "Event" if its Man Made. It doesn't have to be a dead Bang match but close to pull me to the side of not mint error of some type.
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pup_picker
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by pup_picker » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:38 pm

.
thanks for posting all the images and taking the punches @twohawks
.

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mark
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by mark » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:13 pm

So now there's a 14.2A and 14.2B but no 14.2.. another hole that can never be filled? All of my 14.2's were changed to 14.2A in the SSDC registry and I have both EDS now apparently the 14.2A and LDS now 14.2B.

The SSDC registry made all 14.2s 14.2A but should have made them 14.2B which is way more common.

twohawks
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by twohawks » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:05 am

The official listings are VAM-14.2 VAM 14.2a and VAM-14.2b From what I have from Leroy is that as the VAM-14.2 is the last usage of the reverse die, and non of the earlier pairings have the feeder finger gouges thought the "O" of OF, a coin must have been minted without the gouges. I am sure the VAM-14.15 doesn't have them, and of the 3 VAM-14.20's I have held nor do they.

I have looked over past heritage sales of VAM-14.2 coins and have not seen one without the feeder fingers. A fair number of PL coins are in the registry and I would encourage everyone too look. Brent sent me a circulated one he thought did not have them, but it is an ANACS 40 and it has them. I simple key is a VAM-14.2a will not be clashed "so a true 14.2 will be before the clash event.

From looking at this VAM for some time, 14.2a are some what out there but are not common with what looked to be about 95% of all the 14.2 types are VAM-14.2b coins. Again if you see a clash it will most likely be a VAM-14.2b and if its a real early one it may have letter transfer as the clash episode shows a post clash polishing. I have never found a early clashed one.

morganman
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by morganman » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:05 pm

Well Guys;???? coin here on VW is what makes this site so Fantastic/ Not dead boring,
like other coin sites. Fun to see guys like JR,JB, LVA (The King), discussing
attributes/errors of a coin. only good comes from the analysis, which
serves to strengthen this site.

Amazing that this guy Russ James (twohawks) finds amazing Morgans,
all the time still working a real job. LOL YOU SUCK fits perfectly LOL

Thanks to all- i do miss some knowledgeable past members like Logan,
Ash H- who still here but quiet -maybe quite busy
& many others.
:|

lured_in_again
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by lured_in_again » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:51 pm

Not seeing it in hand, it still has the look of a coin that was placed in a vise, bent a little , and bent back to flat. Seems a cud would have a crack line more evident, especially on a coin in higher grade. Just this guys opinion.....

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mark
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by mark » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:48 pm

So basically we already knew there as a 14.2 EDS and LDS. Now without proof of existence there is a 14.2. I don't why Leroy would create a new VAM without proof of the existence. There should be a 14.2 (EDS) and 14.2A that is the LDS.

twohawks
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Re: Back from Leroy 4 NEW 1878 Varieties W/ 2 new 8 TF

Post by twohawks » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:05 pm

I would agree with that, and is what I thought would happen. I did point out the feeder finger gouges when I sent it in, and was a little shocked when he divided them up into 3. Should a now 14.2 show up it will be extremely rare. Again I urge everyone in the SSDC to look at there 14.2a coins to see if they are missing the feeder finger gouges.

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