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HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:37 pm
by RMG1883CC
Here's a NICE Clasher - - 1882-O VAM-1A with all the Extras. Be sure to see ALL photos @ http://www.silverdye.us/wiki/Main/NeOr1 ... ,,,,,,,THX ;)

[1882-O VAM-1A] Clashed Obverse n & st
Discovered March 2004 By O.C. Smith Jr.
1A III21 · C3a (Clashed Obverse n & st) (176) I-2 R-5
Obverse III21– Clashed die with partial incuse n of In from reverse showing next to Liberty head neck and partial incuse st of Trust from reverse showing in right hair vee of lower hair edge.
Comments:
1- This Variety technically has a High O, Set Slightly Left and Tilted slightly Left.
2- Amazing clashed Variety.... must see.
3- Since VAM numbers are assigned by die classification, and not just by die pairing, multiple die pairings may exist.
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LVA Plate Photos
(Click image to view at higher resolution.)
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More Photos @ http://www.silverdye.us/wiki/Main/NeOr1882V1ARMG072919

Diagnostic photographs

********************* 1882-O VAM-1A Raw Coin(176) I-2 R-5 Click to view at full resolution. ***********************
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Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:51 pm
by DHalladay
I always wonder how loud it was at the coining press when such a heavy clash event happened!

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:10 am
by Mhomei
That is a great find! Congrats

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:22 am
by dave700x
DHalladay wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:51 pm
I always wonder how loud it was at the coining press when such a heavy clash event happened!
Hah! I always wondered the same. It had to make a helleva sound.... :lol:

Great example! 8-)

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:30 am
by PacificWR
Nice pick Ron. Great work on the photos. VAM-1A for sure.

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:36 pm
by RMG1883CC
THANKS guys,,,,,,,,, Thought you would like this one NJ.
How loud,,,, only can imagine that.
THX WAYNE ;)

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:58 pm
by messydesk
DHalladay wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:51 pm
I always wonder how loud it was at the coining press when such a heavy clash event happened!
I imagine it was disappointingly quiet, yet sounded different enough from striking a planchet to catch an experienced operator's attention, especially if a die broke. The striking pressure doesn't come from the impact, but from a gradual increase in pressure during the stroke of the press once dies come into contact with the planchet. For dollars being coined at 80 per minute, the die isn't exactly moving at the speed of a sledge hammer pounding circus tent stakes into asphalt. Total vertical travel is probably on the order of an inch, with the downstroke lasting 375 msec, and the vertical speed of the die as they clash being close to zero, less than what it would have been with a planchet in place.

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:58 pm
by CascadeChris
When I was up in Loveland playing with Dan's press I was so enthralled at how each strike was so quiet and how it seemed like the dies just quickly kissed the planchet. You wouldnt have thought anything happend.

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:14 pm
by DHalladay
messydesk wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:58 pm
DHalladay wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:51 pm
I always wonder how loud it was at the coining press when such a heavy clash event happened!
I imagine it was disappointingly quiet, yet sounded different enough from striking a planchet to catch an experienced operator's attention, especially if a die broke. The striking pressure doesn't come from the impact, but from a gradual increase in pressure during the stroke of the press once dies come into contact with the planchet. For dollars being coined at 80 per minute, the die isn't exactly moving at the speed of a sledge hammer pounding circus tent stakes into asphalt. Total vertical travel is probably on the order of an inch, with the downstroke lasting 375 msec, and the vertical speed of the die as they clash being close to zero, less than what it would have been with a planchet in place.

I believe J.R. has a contender for the "Crusher of Dreams" moniker.

Thanks for the great information.

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:25 pm
by ljs123
Nice pick Ron. :)

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:31 pm
by ORGirl1!
Wonderful Clasher, Ron!! Great pix, illustrating the VAM-1A, too!

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:17 pm
by RMG1883CC
Maybe the VETERAN Ear may pick-up a slight change during the process.

HEY------ THX Lee,,,,,,,,, ;)
AND SD'er Marcy,,,,,appreciate ya :)

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:46 am
by messydesk
I made two charts that show how the speed of the hammer die changes during a full coining stroke. The blue line represents the position of the hammer die above the "bottom out" position, which in the case of dies that can clash, is the position of the anvil die. The horizontal axis is degrees of rotation of the drive mechanism through the coining cycle. The dashed line represents where it would contact a 2.5 mm thick planchet if the entire stroke distance (top of blue curve to bottom) was 38 mm (1.5 inches). I couldn't find the spacing that was used for dollars mentioned in either VAM or From Mine to Mint. Where the orange line is positive, the die is coming down, where it is blue, it is going up.

dietravel1.png
dietravel1.png (21.29 KiB) Viewed 1157 times
This is a close-up around the bottom-out position (270°). In this illustration, when the die hits the planchet (blue line crosses dashed line), it is only going half of its maximum speed (orange line), and the speed drops of pretty fast as it approaches the anvil and reverses direction.
dietravel2.png
dietravel2.png (19.91 KiB) Viewed 1157 times

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:04 pm
by LorenAlbert
Interesting that the position of the hammer follows a sine wave. A universal property of the all that is. I expected a more complex waveform to reflect power at the approach to the dashed line. In a perfect world of physics, I imagine that the hammer would not hit the anvil regardless of whether a planchett was fed. The "bottom out" position would be above the anvil. Approaching the ideal may shed light on why the Truckee Railroad replaced the broken frame in Carson City rather than pay FedEx shipping.

As I recall, the resulting press had the longest service life of any press. It would be interesting to know if clash marks from this press, if there were any, were less pronounced than clash marks from other presses.

Nice work Ron. I am a little behind; but catching up. Loren

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:01 pm
by messydesk
LorenAlbert wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:04 pm
Interesting that the position of the hammer follows a sine wave. A universal property of the all that is. I expected a more complex waveform to reflect power at the approach to the dashed line.
It very well may be somewhat more complex than a simple sine wave, but it is periodic, the motion reverses, it's driven by a flywheel moving in one direction, and reversing directions of the die can't be too hard on the press.

The motion for a screw press would be a bit different.

Re: HEAVY Clasher 82-O

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:48 pm
by LorenAlbert
As I kid I studied Iskenderian camshafts. Lift, duration, overlap, etc. No doubt, the merit of using a flywheel versus a camshaft was worked out hundreds of years ago, but, on the surface, it seems that a cam might have allowed for finer tuning and less damage in the event of a failed feed. A roller cam. Thanks for the charts. They inspired me to think more about presses.