The Flip Fliped

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
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CascadeChris
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by CascadeChris » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:10 am

Yup. I know the feeling quite well. If anyone missed it, I picked a raw v9 at Long Beach this February that came back PCGS xf40! 😎

We both suck 😛

So, what is everyone's take on the v9 mintage? I've heard some people say a couple thousand and some people are ardent about the reporters account of only a few hundred struck. What's the consensus??? @vampicker @messydesk
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ljs123
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by ljs123 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:19 am

WTG :!: Congratulations :mrgreen:

Nate and I picked our VAM-9s within weeks of each other. I submitted our coins together and his graded but mine did not. I'm still happy that I found one at a dealer in the wild.

blh74
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by blh74 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:30 am

A cherry picking dream coin.

collectinsince65
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by collectinsince65 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:55 am

Yes it is!
My first submission in 20 years to ANACs was a couple of months back.
To my surprise they had records of my original submissions to them from the 90's which I downloaded.
In April '99 I had a VAM 9 slab EF 45
In June '99 I had a VAM 9 slab VF 20
Baby needed new shoes
Both are long gone.
Congrats again on a great pick!
Mike

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bjsilverfox
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by bjsilverfox » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:36 am

Thanks guys. I was shocked when I turned that one over. My take on the VAM 9 is that the reporter was there when the dies clashed and they shut down the press. He reported what was minted to that point, never considering they would start them up again creating the VAM 9A.

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CascadeChris
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by CascadeChris » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:12 am

bjsilverfox wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:36 am
Thanks guys. I was shocked when I turned that one over. My take on the VAM 9 is that the reporter was there when the dies clashed and they shut down the press. He reported what was minted to that point, never considering they would start them up again creating the VAM 9A.
Who's to say the 9A wasn't part of the initial 300ish tho?
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messydesk
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by messydesk » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:12 am

If you've ever dealt with a "general purpose" reporter for a newspaper, you know full well that part of their job is to get something wrong, or at least not entirely correct.

The 300 number is to be taken with a grain of salt. VAM 9 is scarce, but not as rare as a mintage of 300 would indicate. Some of today's ultra-rarities may have had mintages higher than that, or at least on the same order of magnitude.

Not sure when the clash that led to the listing of VAM 9A occurred. If dies clashing was noted by a reporter, it's likely that examining and repolishing them was not. VAM 14 is also listed with and without clashes, and it shares an obverse with VAM 9.
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vampicker
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by vampicker » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:28 pm

So even if the erstwhile reporter was actually there and accurately recorded the mintage of the day, there's no way he could have known when the dies were actually destroyed. The obverse survived to be used in another marriage as noted.
Another way to look at this is we know for a fact that the VAM 9 dies started out with DMPL surfaces because of the presentation strikes and other clearly EDS examples. It takes several hundred if not a full thousand strikes to wear DMPL dies down to PL, and a couple of thousand more strikes to move past semi-PL surfaces to the satin luster we see on some VAM 9's. I'd estimate several thousand were struck based on what VAM 9A's look like as far as die wear goes.
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78-sLongnock
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by 78-sLongnock » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:43 pm

JR, this info about wear of DMPL & PL I’ve not heard before.
Now apply this info to the 78-s Vam 60’s pop report, HUM, 🧐
Last edited by 78-sLongnock on Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vampicker
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by vampicker » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:54 pm

We've talked about this, but I'm usually talking about 78-CCs when the topic comes up. Most of those marriages are NOT polished to DMPL in their early stages. Mid die state mirrors are nowhere near as durable as the EDS version.
Playing from memory, but aren't most of your better examples at least PLish?
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

78-sLongnock
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by 78-sLongnock » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:04 pm

The only DMPL survivors known so far are the two Vam 60’s & the only 5 that show Pl’s surfaces are
One Vam 27A in the ANACS net graded holder, one Vam 56 in 55 holder, the one Vam 58, the Vam 58 BU raw one & the one Vam 72.
There are No Pl surface on any Vam 26, 57 (my Opinion) 59, or 62.
Last edited by 78-sLongnock on Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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CascadeChris
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by CascadeChris » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:06 pm

JR, that just blew my mind. It was like a "duh" moment. Hard to refute :P
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vampicker
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by vampicker » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:42 pm

So you already know several of the Long Nock marriages didn't have the mirror surface in their initial stage, just like most of the 78-CC's. What we're really talking about with your assemblage of LN's are the AU's and XF's from marriages with known PL or DMPL stages that still show a trace of the mirror under the circulation
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vampicker
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by vampicker » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:48 pm

It's important to note that my estimates of how fast a mirrored surface wears off a die are informal and based on observation over time filtered by memory. It was not a point subjected to scientific examination. I bet I'm close though....
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CascadeChris
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by CascadeChris » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:58 pm

vampicker wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:48 pm
It's important to note that my estimates of how fast a mirrored surface wears off a die are informal and based on observation over time filtered by memory. It was not a point subjected to scientific examination. I bet I'm close though....
Damn JR, you can read minds too?! I was gonna bring that up after you and Pete were done. It was my assumption that DMPL wears away at a few hundred max. Not sure where I heard/read that or if it was just a hunch tho.

Also notable from your bunker buster drop of a post was that EDS mirrors stick around much longer than repolished mirrors. Hadn't even thought of that before..
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messydesk
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by messydesk » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:29 pm

The durability of the mirrors also depends on the final hardening of the dies, which will make them more or less resistant to wear (i.e., flow lines). Of course, given that the issues with the early 8TF dies was breakage rather than wear, I assume lack of appropriate hardness was not an issue.
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vamsterdam
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Re: The Flip Fliped

Post by vamsterdam » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:38 am

I know to flip everything over because the found my first 1878 v14.7 in a 7tf holder. It made no sense because it had super deep mirrors , unlike any 7tf I had ever seen. I had a cow when I realized it was a 14.7.

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