My First Try at Conservation

lioncutter · Post by **lioncutter** » Mon May 13, 2019 12:22 am

I have never tried conserving or cleaning before but since I have had these dirty Morgans laying around raw for awhile, I decided to try it out using MS70 cleaner. My first try is with a dirty 1891-O VAM 14a (I cherried long ago) that has much of its details left on both obverse and reverse. In one of the pics, I did one half of the obverse, just to see how much of a difference it would make. I am pleased with the results. I am conserving a 1888 O Hot Lips next. Results coming in the days ahead. So what grade do you think it is. Poll above.

: 1891 O VAM 14A conserved obverse.jpg (242.9 KiB) Viewed 9335 times

: 1891 O VAM 14A conserved half obverse.jpg (237.98 KiB) Viewed 9335 times

: 1891 O VAM 14A conserved fully obverse.jpg (278.76 KiB) Viewed 9335 times

And then the reverse.

: 1891 O VAM 14A conserved reverse.jpg (271.32 KiB) Viewed 9335 times

: 1891 O VAM 14A conserved fully reverse.jpg (294.48 KiB) Viewed 9335 times

TheYokel · Post by **TheYokel** » Mon May 13, 2019 12:35 am

45 Details..

impairedsquirrel · Post by **impairedsquirrel** » Mon May 13, 2019 1:42 am

With Ant... 45cleaned

dave700x · Post by **dave700x** » Mon May 13, 2019 1:55 am

My personal preference is to not touch anything less than MS with anything other than acetone...

TheYokel · Post by **TheYokel** » Mon May 13, 2019 2:11 am

dave700x wrote: ↑
Mon May 13, 2019 1:55 am
My personal preference is to not touch anything less than MS with anything other than acetone...

Edit: OP coin did come out really nice though. You did a great job. You just run the risk of highlighting old cleaning when taking the top layer off a circulated coin.

I practiced on garbage dirty/toned vintage silver bars before moving to coins. Then it was a dirty JFK lol...

It still today even feels sooooo wrong dunking Anna into anything

I get so nervous I still won't even acetone a toned coin. Just pay the couple shekels to have NCS do it for me. I'd literally cry if some of my Morgans lost their color due to my negligence...
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CascadeChris · Post by **CascadeChris** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:43 am

Not bad for a circulated test run. As a rule of thumb though, you only want to conserve BU coins or high AU with full luster at the very lowest. Anything lower stick with acetone and even then, with lower grade coins, if you have gunk or something that has been on the coin for a while and the acetone removes it you stand a good chance of leaving a patch of fresh metal that can look worse than the gunk. The metal under the gunk ages at a slower rate than the rest of the coin and removing it can leave a patch of bright luster on an otherwise crusty VF/XF coin for instance.

mark · Post by **mark** » Tue May 14, 2019 5:50 pm

I think the coin turned out very nice. I would expect this would grade XF40. When you use MS70 is can really highlight the circulation marks making it look like it might have been harshly cleaned. However I think this coin will grade without details based on the pictures. I only see typical circulation hairlines.

I use MS70 on pretty much every VF+ coin I submit for grading. I just got back two orders from PCGS, 21 coins. At least half were MS70'd (half were AG-VG low ball coins which I typically don't touch). Not one body bag.. but then I haven't had a BB in a couple/few years.

CascadeChris · Post by **CascadeChris** » Tue May 14, 2019 6:14 pm

If this grades out I would expect AU50. Maaaaaybe 53 dependent on the day. Way too much luster for an XF anything and the wear isn't XF level either. Just a weakly struck AU... AmIwrong?

TheYokel · Post by **TheYokel** » Tue May 14, 2019 6:29 pm

CascadeChris wrote: ↑
Tue May 14, 2019 6:14 pm
If this grades out I would expect AU50. Maaaaaybe 53 dependent on the day. Way too much luster for an XF anything and the wear isn't XF level either. Just a weakly struck AU... AmIwrong?

XF45 will still show luster. Almost needs to to get the 45. Any lack in luster and they lump it into XF40...

Too much marks for AU imo. They will either (most likely) give AU details or a higher chance for a possible straight XF45. I'm still learning towards details.

mark · Post by **mark** » Tue May 14, 2019 6:51 pm

I have plenty of lustrous XF coins I thought would grade AU.. I think there's just too much wear on the reverse. I said XF40 but could easily see XF45.

I've sent in a few poorer strike coins I swear would grade AU58 only to have them come back AU53. I prefer to lean on the conservative side to be more pleased if the coin grades higher.

fogie · Post by **fogie** » Tue May 14, 2019 7:17 pm

Au det.

TheYokel · Post by **TheYokel** » Tue May 14, 2019 7:30 pm

mark wrote: ↑
Tue May 14, 2019 6:51 pm
I have plenty of lustrous XF coins I thought would grade AU.. I think there's just too much wear on the reverse. I said XF40 but could easily see XF45.

I've sent in a few poorer strike coins I swear would grade AU58 only to have them come back AU53. I prefer to lean on the conservative side to be more pleased if the coin grades higher.

AU53 is often one of the hardest grades to get. When they sent me the email saying my 1900-O was coming back AU53 i asked to have it added to my collection in case i build a grade set. One of only 15 to ever get the grade...

CascadeChris · Post by **CascadeChris** » Tue May 14, 2019 7:58 pm

TheYokel wrote: ↑
Tue May 14, 2019 7:30 pm

mark wrote: ↑
Tue May 14, 2019 6:51 pm
I have plenty of lustrous XF coins I thought would grade AU.. I think there's just too much wear on the reverse. I said XF40 but could easily see XF45.

I've sent in a few poorer strike coins I swear would grade AU58 only to have them come back AU53. I prefer to lean on the conservative side to be more pleased if the coin grades higher.
AU53 is often one of the hardest grades to get. When they sent me the email saying my 1900-O was coming back AU53 i asked to have it added to my collection in case i build a grade set. One of only 15 to ever get the grade...

Hell, I just got a 60 back from the bulk sub. I cant even remeber the last time something went 60. I was beginning to think they eliminated it from the sheldon scale

TheYokel · Post by **TheYokel** » Tue May 14, 2019 8:02 pm

CascadeChris wrote: ↑
Tue May 14, 2019 7:58 pm

TheYokel wrote: ↑
Tue May 14, 2019 7:30 pm

mark wrote: ↑
Tue May 14, 2019 6:51 pm
I have plenty of lustrous XF coins I thought would grade AU.. I think there's just too much wear on the reverse. I said XF40 but could easily see XF45.

I've sent in a few poorer strike coins I swear would grade AU58 only to have them come back AU53. I prefer to lean on the conservative side to be more pleased if the coin grades higher.
AU53 is often one of the hardest grades to get. When they sent me the email saying my 1900-O was coming back AU53 i asked to have it added to my collection in case i build a grade set. One of only 15 to ever get the grade...
Hell, I just got a 60 back from the bulk sub. I cant even remeber the last time something went 60. I was beginning to think they eliminated it from the sheldon scale

They hate giving 53 or 60. I have no idea why.

lioncutter · Post by **lioncutter** » Tue May 14, 2019 10:01 pm

Thanks for all the responses and information on conserving.
I have a PCGS AU 53 1891-O VAM 14A to compare to. The one in the pic above is very close in detail to the AU 53 in the PCGS holder. I am thinking AU 50 imo. or EX 45 as the lowest. As for getting a details or not, I am 50/50 on it. I have had just too many get graded "details" thinking it was not.
As I look at my own pics above, I still see I have some gunk or dirt still left on the reverse in spots. Thought I had it all.

lioncutter · Post by **lioncutter** » Mon May 27, 2019 2:06 pm

Here is my second attempt at conserving a 1888-O VAM 4 Hot Lips. It is very hard to find in XF 45 and above grade without paying much moolaa for it. I did not pay very much for this one, so I took a shot at it. I was hoping for a little more detail under that dirt but to me it looks like it may have been previously cleaned and was dirtied (if that is a word) again. Reverse looks amazingly good to me. I am thinking VF 35 to XF 40.

: 1888 O hot lips obverse.jpg (37.97 KiB) Viewed 9152 times

: 1888-O VAM 4 hot lips obverse cleaned ms70.jpg (273.54 KiB) Viewed 9152 times

: 1888 O hot lips reverse.jpg (102.41 KiB) Viewed 9152 times

: 1888-O VAM 4 hot lips reverse cleaned ms70.jpg (229.1 KiB) Viewed 9152 times

TheYokel · Post by **TheYokel** » Mon May 27, 2019 3:13 pm

Any old cleaning would still be noticeable under an original layer that thin.

I think it looks much better after your efforts. Especially the details that came out on the chin (giggity) and nose. Nice job

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VamHelsing · Post by **VamHelsing** » Mon May 27, 2019 4:39 pm

Let us know how they turn out if you send them in for grading. I think they look better, but unnatural now.

Kurt28 · Post by **Kurt28** » Tue May 28, 2019 4:58 am

I've spent thousands of hours experimenting with coin conservation.
Cheap and common foreign coins seemed like a good place to start.
I'm not trying to fool the experts into grading a coin higher than it ought be, but to stop ongoing corrosion and increase eye appeal.
Other than an acetone bath, I haven't done much to Morgans, but maybe someday my lessons will come in handy.

lioncutter · Post by **lioncutter** » Tue May 28, 2019 3:25 pm

Thanks for sharing Kurt. I am also not trying to get higher grades (but if that happens, great!) I am looking at the eye appeal as well. Looks like you had some amazing results.
Vamhelsing, I only get my coins graded about once a year but will let you know when that time comes what grades came out of these two.
Yokel, thanks for the compliment.

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