AOH 1891-O VAM-1A2 "E and Eyeball" in VF... Details >.<

[TheYokel]

Morning everyone!

Another of my recent returns. Super happy to add this one for reasons of obvious obsession lol. The pictures looked 10-times worse when i bought it, so getting a VF was actually pretty cool. Most of these I've seen are pretty worn down, so not complaining much at all

It gives me a really strong E to study, and along with my 36A gives me a good amount of research to do on the closer-to-wreath E clashes. Now to find one by the arrows
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[hairfield1]

Darn, I can see the "E" on this one................

[CascadeChris]

Ant posting a 1A with the close up shot at the bottom directly above his tagline is deliciously funny

[dave700x]

I can only imagine how much noise that clash made....

If you like this one pick up one of Daniel Carr's clashed Morgans.

[TheYokel]

Ant posting a 1A with the close up shot at the bottom directly above his tagline is deliciously funny

Darn, I can see the "E" on this one................

I'm still 50/50 on it... Might need 12 more photos..

I can only imagine how much noise that clash made....

If you like this one pick up one of Daniel Carr's clashed Morgans.

? I've seen his overstrike works but never a clashed one... Pics?

[CascadeChris]

[/quote]

? I've seen his overstrike works but never a clashed one... Pics?
[/quote]

I've got a couple. I'll being one to Vegas and hook you up. They're amazeballs

[TheYokel]

I've got a couple. I'll being one to Vegas and hook you up. They're amazeballs

*Swoon*

[dave700x]

See attached link. https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/top ... overstrike

[TheYokel]

See attached link. https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/top ... overstrike

The clarity of the clash marks on that is insane...

Reminds me of what the very first 83-O 38B might have looked like ..

[impairedsquirrel]

Hey Ant, here's a lesson in why not to like NGC attributions:
That looks like a 1a1 to me...

[TheYokel]

Hey Ant, here's a lesson in why not to like NGC attributions:
That looks like a 1a1 to me...

Was good enough for them...

And out of all the TPGS that give designations... PCGS is by FAR the worst. Especially with dimes and nickels... By FAR.
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[impairedsquirrel]

But it shouldn't be good enough for you.
1a1

[TheYokel]

But it shouldn't be good enough for you.
1a1

I told y'all in the original thread when i found the coin that it would designate 1A2 based on the descriptions in the Top 100 books.

It's a problem with the progression listings and the info that's been published, not with the coin or the TPGS. It has an easily visibly raised dome starting next to the leaves by what would be the top of Anna's eye, and a small dome next to the wreath by the nose bridge. Until someone publishes a more up-to-date guide for these that NGC or any TPGS has access to, they are going to list it based on the raised sections. It's all they have to go by..

[vampicker]

But it's still wrong and the correct attribution really isn't complicated for the progression
VAM 1A1 killer clash
1A4 clash plus the gouge at AT of STATES last stage listed, so it's out of order
1A2 raised dome that looks like a pimple (the eye clash is irrelevant - its on all stages)
1A3 the 'pimple' has popped. May be gross, but you'll never get fooled again

[TheYokel]

But it's still wrong and the correct attribution really isn't complicated for the progression
VAM 1A1 killer clash
1A4 clash plus the gouge at AT of STATES last stage listed, so it's out of order
1A2 raised dome that looks like a pimple (the eye clash is irrelevant - its on all stages)
1A3 the 'pimple' has popped. May be gross, but you'll never get fooled again

Oh i 100% agree. My last reply in the original post was something like "1A1 it is!" or something close.

You have to remember that I even pointed out in the latest edition of the F&O Top 100 guide... They didn't even know 1A4 existed.

In a lot of ways, you all are the cutting edge of research on these coins. We expect information to keep up and be distributed in almost real-time... But it's up to you all to do it. This is a very tiny corner of the internet. If we want the information out there, we have to do it. Perhaps someone with better ties to the industry could set-up an information network for the major TPGS to share... I would have no idea who or how any of that works.

We want VAMs to go mainstream... But the information has to go mainstream with it. We can't keep information contained to ourselves like some kind of esoteric secrets and expect others to catch up to it.

[vampicker]

I'll agree but only to a certain point. The same information is available to my competitors as I have access to, other than my own experience. If a company is going to offer a professional service, they should be able to actually provide it. Numerous authors and researchers can jump thru hoops to provide up to date work, but will my peers actually take the time to read it?
Some will, some won't. We can cite numerous examples on stuff on holders that demonstrate a lackadaisical attitude. I have a condition census Columbus Civil War store card token with the merchant's name misspelled. The correct spelling is on the token less than an inch away.
Expecting competence and professionalism may have become old-fashioned ideas.

[TheYokel]

I'll agree but only to a certain point. The same information is available to my competitors as I have access to, other than my own experience. If a company is going to offer a professional service, they should be able to actually provide it. Numerous authors and researchers can jump thru hoops to provide up to date work, but will my peers actually take the time to read it?
Some will, some won't. We can cite numerous examples on stuff on holders that demonstrate a lackadaisical attitude. I have a condition census Columbus Civil War store card token with the merchant's name misspelled. The correct spelling is on the token less than an inch away.
Expecting competence and professionalism may have become old-fashioned ideas.

I was just told you are the main guy at ANACS... So please boss, i mean no disrespect by any of this, this is coming simply from a collector/investor view and not as a VAM'er... (and it's well known i don't know how to keep my thoughts to myself)

...clueless buyers value NGC and PCGS more than any other holders. If we really want the money to flow into VAMs, we have to get the information into the hands of the companies the most money flows through, if that makes sense?

We need the companies that draw the biggest money to be fully involved if we want the biggest money being put into our market.

Case in point: *We* know my coin is a 1A1. *You* know my coin is a 1A1. *Everyone* on this forum can tell it's a 1A1 (forehead clash et al). To the layman... what PCGS/NGC says trumps all. There's people that will even buy a bad coin just for the registry points for the holder designation... The coin itself is irrelevant to some buyers. It's what the company says...

...and we need the companies to be saying the same things. It's for the benefit of the market as a whole. No layman is going to buy a $1,500 1B if they think the next company won't honor it. The differences in some of these VAMs is hard for even this communuty to agree upon in some threads. And differences mean dollars. We need everyone reading from the same book...

...even if it is their fault they are failing the test. This market passes or fails as a class. We're all boots together in this so to say.

I'm tempted to take pedigreed pictures, cross this thing to PCGS for a second 1A2 designation under my pcgs collection with their own pictures, and write a detailed letter to the editor of CoinWeek detailing how behind-the-times the research is from NGC/PCGS... But I'm afraid it would do more harm to the VAM market than good... Even though it would force their hand...

I don't envy your position boss. You are in a weird situation that i can see both sides of. As a business, you are 100% correct in making sure you have the information the others don't. As a collector, I'm not sure how much it helps. Perhaps PCGS/NGC need to outsource their designations to ANACS and then grade the coin separately. Something needs to be done to make the coins consistent though, or the VAM industry never will be.

With the utmost respect boss...

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[blh74]

What happened to "buy the coin , not the holder" ?

[vampicker]

No offense taken. For my part, I try to do my job as best I can. I generally avoid most public discussions about my competitors. No need to unnecessarily burn bridges.

[TheYokel]

What happened to "buy the coin , not the holder" ?

Plenty of people cheat registries for points. I've had friends get a return, post pics on facebook out of excitement before they register them, and by the time they open the pcgs registry tab someone has pilfered the slab number and they had to email pcgs with photo proof they had the slab in hand to get it added to their collection.

You don't think there's someone somewhere that wouldn't pay $250 for a rare vam holder just to one-up their competitors on the registry?

HAH...