87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

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CascadeChris
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87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by CascadeChris » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:06 pm

Whatcha guys think? I've only seen one on the Dan Carr "1964-D" Clashed Dies Morgan. It's something and placement looks correct as well as a beard transfer. Beak or phantom?
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CascadeChris
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by CascadeChris » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:08 pm

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Raybob15239
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by Raybob15239 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:12 pm

I don't think that it is physically possible for a recessed area on one die to transfer to a recessed area on the other. To do so would require such a powerful strike that much more of the images of both sides wou I'll d transfer to the other. I just don't see that here.
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vampicker
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by vampicker » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:14 pm

It's exactly what it is and pretty much every 'bearded eagle' clash has this on the obverse. Tried this before and Leroy wouldnt list it Still cool though....
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by TheYokel » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:25 pm

vampicker wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:14 pm
It's exactly what it is and pretty much every 'bearded eagle' clash has this on the obverse. Tried this before and Leroy wouldnt list it Still cool though....
Can confirm my 1887 VAM13 bearded eagle also does.

Can also confirm from my last send-in he wouldn't list it lol.
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CascadeChris
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by CascadeChris » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:41 pm

Thanks JR.

Ray, it is possible. Aside this, and Dan's 64D clashed dies where he intentionally clashed them incredibly hard, he then clashed them once more and struck 4 as a finally, of which I own one. Also, think of the "Talon-head" clash on the 71 P&D Ikes.. That's the clash that changed my thinking about device to device transfer.

When I get time, either soon or after I get back from my east coast trip, I'll post pics of my "super" clashed dies 64D Carr. Its cool AF...
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by ljs123 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:27 pm

Chris,
Very cool :!:
I know of two more with this feature.
I used to own a 83-O that Ray saw and pointed out to me that it had the beak clash. I then sent it to Nate because of the nice toning. I think it was a VAM-12, but Ray would know for sure.
There is also a 1889 that is easy to find documented on the VW pages.

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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by ljs123 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:28 pm

Chris,
I could not find a beak clash photo of my 83-O VAM-12 that Ray told me about.
You can see photos that I took of a beak clash on the 1889 VAM-38A Page.
Note that the clash was so hard that the outline of the head also clashed lower down on the obverse.

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... -P_VAM-38A

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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by RMG1883CC » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:00 pm

Image

Above is 89P V38A,,,,,,,,check my 87p V13A Has a touch of the beak

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raynat3
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by raynat3 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:20 pm

Those are some strong ones shown. I think they are cool.
I think the first one I saw was on the 83-O VAM 58. A new category for the registry.

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CascadeChris
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by CascadeChris » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:02 pm

I didn't know the Eagle's head clash transferred on any genuine US Mint morgans. When I saw it on my 13A it was a wow moment for sure. I'll have to check every bearded eagle I come across now.

Very good idea on creating an "Eagle's Head Clash" SSDC registry set! @fogie can get it going! :mrgreen:
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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:33 am

The VAM-13 was studied 10 years ago. I did an article about the die progression of the VAM-13 and it is repeated in a VAMView back when. It includes the eagle beak transfer.

Here is a link to the VAM-13 page if anyone is interested. Look at Comment 2.

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 7-P_VAM-13

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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by Raybob15239 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:55 am

CascadeChris wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:41 pm
Thanks JR.

Ray, it is possible. Aside this, and Dan's 64D clashed dies where he intentionally clashed them incredibly hard, he then clashed them once more and struck 4 as a finally, of which I own one. Also, think of the "Talon-head" clash on the 71 P&D Ikes.. That's the clash that changed my thinking about device to device transfer.

When I get time, either soon or after I get back from my east coast trip, I'll post pics of my "super" clashed dies 64D Carr. Its cool AF...
I've never seen this. Something new to look for! I never would have thought that to be possible. Best part of VAMming, there is always something you don't know and as long as you don't close your mind, you are always learning something new! This is pretty cool.
Last edited by Raybob15239 on Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by RMG1883CC » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:07 am

I HAVE ANOTHER,,,,,,, BUT DON'T REMEMBER WHAT DATE -----THE THREAD WAS FUN.

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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by RMG1883CC » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:25 am

Image

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CascadeChris
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by CascadeChris » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:40 am

LateDateMorganGuy wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:33 am
The VAM-13 was studied 10 years ago. I did an article about the die progression of the VAM-13 and it is repeated in a VAMView back when. It includes the eagle beak transfer.

Here is a link to the VAM-13 page if anyone is interested. Look at Comment 2.

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 7-P_VAM-13
What the fudge. How am I just finding out now that a clearly defined "Eagle Head" transfer on genuine Morgans not only exists but it's a thing and on multiple known dies - although known only to the academics apparently. Why the heck isn't it a popular thing?! Has there just not been too much general interest or is it just not / hasn't been generally known? I wonder how many are known? Sounds like a really cool set to put together.. and I'm not even a set type guy. Hopefully this thread will be the catalyst that sparks interest in a whole new subset to collect ☺
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by RMG1883CC » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:49 am

Both 87 v13 and 13A have just a partial and faint

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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:55 am

Chris, if you are excited about an eagle beak transfer, wait until you find a double one (double clash).

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CascadeChris
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by CascadeChris » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:18 am

LateDateMorganGuy wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:55 am
Chris, if you are excited about an eagle beak transfer, wait until you find a double one (double clash).
:o
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Re: 87p v13A... Eagles beak transfer to obverse?

Post by andywoj00 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:33 am

Have the eagle beak/head clash as well on my 87P V13A.

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