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vampicker
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:56 pm

Numbered right to left in the VAM book itself.
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:00 pm

First two pictures in this thread - a near miss G clash, then a mark under TF5.
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by TheYokel » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:46 pm

vampicker wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:00 pm
First two pictures in this thread - a near miss G clash, then a mark under TF5.
Ok something is seriously messed up over here. I have 4 clashed coins all from this same year/mm that I've hunted down from various die clashes, and they are all labeled the same on imgur so i think my dumb@$$ has crossed pictures up of coins. I'll post full-coin shots of them when i get home to sort this out. I'm so confused at this point that I'd just be wasting your time trying to sort this out without just posting the full coins...

(And no, i promise i haven't just been trying to waste your time already lol :lol: I'm just God awful at this, but you're all teaching me a lot in this thread. Right or wrong, I'll get this sorted out later, but no matter the outcome you guys have shown me a lot of amazing useful info so far. Thank you.)
"There is no E"...

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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:58 pm

No need, the first two shots in the thread really do go together. I already pedigreed the piece. Just slow down and look at your overlays and coins in hand when you get home. The point I'm making about the location relative to the tail feathers will eventually click, and once it does, you will spare yourself a considerable amount of phantom chasing.
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by TheYokel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:17 am

vampicker wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:26 pm
Are you sure that's your point? You asked about and drew over a mark further to the right solidly under TF5.
Honestly not sure about anything with unseen clashes yet... But man are you all helping me a ton by teaching me the basics of all this...

I finally got home to my coins. Lemme know if I'm starting to understand at least where to look...

So if this is my N clash... And my cap has the wheat clash...

I should be looking here under the 5 TF?... Kinda like the spot on my 83-O? I think actually being able to see the pictures of the overlays is starting to help..
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"There is no E"...

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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:07 pm

Yeah, with that clash orientation, if an E was there. it would be mostly under TF5
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by TheYokel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:00 pm

vampicker wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:07 pm
Yeah, with that clash orientation, if an E was there. it would be mostly under TF5
Woot! I think I'm following this finally!

So if I have an N clash... And I have this piece of transfer touching the wreath...

What would the "Laws of Alignment" (yes I'm making that a phrase) say about this one?
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:48 pm

As you seen more of an N clash, you'd push any potential E further right, and solidly under TF5. A full N would squish your target area into the bow
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by TheYokel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:10 pm

vampicker wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:48 pm
As you seen more of an N clash, you'd push any potential E further right, and solidly under TF5. A full N would squish your target area into the bow
So then the transfer would have to be a letter if its in the wreath bow?
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by TheYokel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:22 pm

Here's the N clash, and whatever I'm looking at below 5TF...

*Something* left a transfer mark on the left edge of the ribbon... I just don't know what...
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:51 pm

I can't stress this enough, you can't assume something is an E or its ilk just because it is kinda in right spot. A suspect mark can be ruled out if it isn't in the right location, but it's circumstantial evidence at best if it seems like its the right spot. A visible E that other people can see actually has to be there. The attached image is of what is likely the weakest E that has any shot at being listed. It is currently noted as 'may not exist' but I'm working on fixing this listing and a couple of others tied to it.
I'm not saying you shouldn't look, but expect to fail. You've already taken your previous attempts as teachable moments, and this is another. Neither of the coins you've illustrated in this thread have E clashes and honestly, they barely qualify as phantoms. I have an 89-CC VAM 4 with major clashing in all the right places and I could see a faint E trace on it when I bought it. It also has a little PVC on it and when I removed the green, my E was gone too.

This is the deeper end of the pool. You're going to swallow some water along with whatever else the swimmers leave behind before toy learn to keep your head above the surface.
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by TheYokel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:03 pm

vampicker wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:51 pm
I can't stress this enough, you can't assume something is an E or its ilk just because it is kinda in right spot. A suspect mark can be ruled out if it isn't in the right location, but it's circumstantial evidence at best if it seems like its the right spot. A visible E that other people can see actually has to be there. The attached image is of what is likely the weakest E that has any shot at being listed. It is currently noted as 'may not exist' but I'm working on fixing this listing and a couple of others tied to it.
I'm not saying you shouldn't look, but expect to fail. You've already taken your previous attempts as teachable moments, and this is another. Neither of the coins you've illustrated in this thread have E clashes and honestly, they barely qualify as phantoms. I have an 89-CC VAM 4 with major clashing in all the right places and I could see a faint E trace on it when I bought it. It also has a little PVC on it and when I removed the green, my E was gone too.

This is the deeper end of the pool. You're going to swallow some water along with whatever else the swimmers leave behind before toy learn to keep your head above the surface.
Thank you for the encouragement boss. This will all hopefully, if nothing else, stop y'all from seeing a plethora of posts asking questions about things that would be in the complerely wrong spot. I'm trying boss, and I'll eventually get there. Just hard for me to learn by proxy. But it's slowly sinking in.

I have to ask though. What's the thought on the clash mark next to the bow? It's completely apparent and definitely there. I may be photo'ing shadows attached to it... But the tick itself is there?... I tried to photo it with zero shadows or any surface coloring on the coin showing... And it's still very noticeably there? There's no other PMD anywhere around it... Surface is baby smooth?
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:09 pm

The little spot in contact with the bow looks incuse
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by TheYokel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:23 pm

vampicker wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:09 pm
The little spot in contact with the bow looks incuse
To my horribly untrained eyes, the whole "tick" looks elevated? I need to practice taking better pictures, my apologies. If i could show what I'm seeing the first time correctly, i wouldn't be posting so many pictures... My apologies boss.
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:25 pm

Here's another thing about chasing weak E's, and other members of the board can bear this out. That 'sweet spot' under the tail feathers is also prone to contact marks right where the E should be.
If you've ever wondered about such things, I can confirm it - a cruel fate truly does mock our efforts. But if you can image the evil laugh of such a being when that worst case scenario bagmark shows its ugly face, it's far easier to take.
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:27 pm

I'm not seeing anything other than some modest die wear lines
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by TheYokel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:56 pm

vampicker wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:27 pm
I'm not seeing anything other than some modest die wear lines
When you say die lines... You're saying wear on the obverse/reverse die will leave marks like this sometimes? Like a die break without the dramatic effects?

And please boss, don't think I'm second questioning anything you're telling me. It's just not very often i get reciprocated with questions/answers outside of simply "No.", and I'm trying to pick (rimshot) your brain to learn from what you are telling me while I have someone willing to help.

Edit: and yes sir. I'm beginning to realize that this is one of the most marked-up spots on a Morgan for some reason. I don't understand it. Coin will be blast white with zero contact marks but a scratch under the tail...

...like people do this stuff on purpose sometimes...
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:04 pm

Yeah, die wear leaves lines in the die face
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by TheYokel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:00 pm

vampicker wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:04 pm
Yeah, die wear leaves lines in the die face
Ok boss. Last question about something (hah!... even i didn't believe that one..)...

I'm looking at the weak E photo you posted and I'm noticing it's basically a flat shadow that barely sticks out of the field. Admittedly, I've been looking for marks that look more like the "bubbly" marks of my 83-O... Last coin photo, but I'm super curious as you said the others "barely counted" as even being phantoms...

Would this one at least get a pass for looking at twice? Am i at least swimming in the right pool with this one?...
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Re: It's Finally In-Hand... Is It a New E Discovery?... Muahaha...

Post by vampicker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:23 pm

Maybe twice, but it's about ten seconds tops in hand - seriously. But that's me after years of doing this.
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