Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

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Pareidoliac
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Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Pareidoliac » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:23 pm

Spent a cold Saturday afternoon identifying VAMs on 1925 Peace Dollars. This 1925 has lines on the rim around the entire obverse and reverse circumferences. Is there a simple explanation for what would cause these lines? Is this a type of collar clash? I only photographed obverse lines but same lines exist on reverse rim.
Attachments
1925, lines edge at Y.jpg
1925, lines edge at Y.jpg (87.76 KiB) Viewed 5152 times
1925, lines at I.jpg
1925, lines at I.jpg (62.86 KiB) Viewed 5152 times
1925, lines at date.jpg
1925, lines at date.jpg (85.83 KiB) Viewed 5152 times
1925, full obv.jpg
1925, full obv.jpg (236.28 KiB) Viewed 5152 times

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Raybob15239
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Raybob15239 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:14 pm

I have been looking at a lot of 25Ps lately and I have never seen that before. Perhaps @colwillys or @davidkclose have seen this?
I swear, someday I will learn how to grade Peace Dollars!

Pareidoliac
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Pareidoliac » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:07 pm

Thanks, Raybob. Can you also take a look at my other 1925 Peace post, the 1AD?

colwillys
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by colwillys » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:05 am

I have not seen these line before .. I even when to the books to find an answer , no help .
check planchet weight and size . Answer could be their .

Pareidoliac
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Pareidoliac » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:42 am

Thanks for your research, colwillys. I looked online for anything I could find on rim lines and collar clashes, etc., and found nothing.

I'm afraid I don't have a scale. I'll have to see if the post office will weigh it for me. As for diameter, my Made in China wooden ruler distributed by CVS Pharmacy, Inc. gives me a measurement of 38 mm. Sure looks like it's a genuine, well made Peace Dollar. I'll post the weight next week.

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Raybob15239
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Raybob15239 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:17 am

I have seen many Peace Dollars with single ring around the rim. I have never seen multiple rings on any date/mm. It is certainly odd, but I don't think that it necessarily means that the coin is counterfeit. The rest of the coin looks like a real 1925 P. Nothing else is really off. It does not look like a collar clash as the spacing of the rings is consistent. I can't think of anything that would cause this, either in making the die or from a PMD angle. It is a puzzler.
Last edited by Raybob15239 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I swear, someday I will learn how to grade Peace Dollars!

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Raybob15239
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Raybob15239 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:19 am

A thought just occurred to me from the PMD angle... could a bezel have caused this?
I swear, someday I will learn how to grade Peace Dollars!

colwillys
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by colwillys » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:29 pm

I was not think counterfeit , off weight planchet and under size .. raybob maybe right a bezel lines
look high enough in the collar .

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Unc90o
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Unc90o » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:06 pm

Just my opinion, I think it's a concentric circles due to lathe tooling just like 23p v1bv. I'm not sure how the lathe tooling works but I'm just imagining maybe the spacing got tighter as it get towards outer edge.

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Raybob15239
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Raybob15239 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:16 pm

Hadn't thought of that. It may warrant a trip to Sidney in a coule weeks.
I swear, someday I will learn how to grade Peace Dollars!

Pareidoliac
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Pareidoliac » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:08 pm

Hmm. While I hate to think the lines were caused by a bezel, that seems to be where this is leading. The lines appear on obv and rev rims. The bezel would have to clamp to both sides.

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Longstrider
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Longstrider » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:58 pm

That is odd. I've never noticed it before but I've never looked for it either. I guess I better go check mine. Good luck. Please let us know what you find. Thanks.

vamsterdam
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by vamsterdam » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:17 pm

They look like lathe lines to me. Have seen a number of them. I would bet that since they are on the rim, they are not listable-like rim cuds

Pareidoliac
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Pareidoliac » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:09 am

I have not ever seen lathe lines or bezel damage; for the latter, has anyone seen bezel damage that has multiple rings (5 or 6)? If it is bezel damage, it would seem there were multiple, unsuccessful attempts to clamp the coin. Let that be a lesson to all you VAMbezelers.

In any case, this 1925 appears to be a VAM-1P die scratch left wing.
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1925 VAM-1P Die Scratch.jpg
1925 VAM-1P Die Scratch.jpg (171.69 KiB) Viewed 5008 times

davidkclose
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by davidkclose » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:02 pm

My VAM 1P doesn't have this. My first thought is some form of PMD.

Pareidoliac
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Re: Another 1925 Question, Rim Lines

Post by Pareidoliac » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:32 pm

Thanks David.

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