restore or delete

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
User avatar
LorenAlbert
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 11:19 am
Contact:

Re: restore or delete

Post by LorenAlbert » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:03 pm

The page is useful as it allows a mobile device user to view what it would be like if the old composite were used at near full size, without splitting it up.
Yes, this is why I created the page; to make the comparison. Nonetheless, the image I uploaded was re-processed by me, without needed permission, from an original. With careful comparisons, and certainly with printing, the re-processed image is inferior to the uncompressed original.
To be proactive, I secured a library of many of the original mhomei composites from VW10 once it was known with certainly that they would be degraded by the transfer to VW20.
Hopefully, the original photographs that comprise the composites are locally archived by the photographer. Why is a complicated solution, of legal question, being put forth? A couple of mouse clicks satisfies the photographer's original request to remove the degraded composites. A reasonable request. Then maybe something could be worked out with the photographer to use the original photographs without needing to deconstruct composite images in violation of the photographer's wishes.
For an army of volunteers to decompose the composites, if in defiance of the photographer's wishes, may disrespect the Golden Rule, and may also disrespect the legal rule. Loren

User avatar
andywoj00
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 3:22 pm
Contact:

Re: restore or delete

Post by andywoj00 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:09 pm

I just compressed and posted the pic to 722k from the original pic. It looks the same as the original pic that Mitch posted at VW1.0.

JB, Wayne, et al: What is wrong with having the photo as it is now at the 85P 1A1 page? I just pulled it up on my Galaxy S7 and it displayed and scrolled just fine. Let's get over the pissing contest and get Mitch's photos updated as they are on the 1A1 page, smaller in file size, but the same res as the originals. His pics are too important to delete....Andy

User avatar
PacificWR
Posts: 1375
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 12:17 pm
Location: Kansas Flint Hills
Contact:

Re: restore or delete

Post by PacificWR » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:00 pm

Andy, I hear you but, I think it is best not to touch Mitch's photos without his approval.

User avatar
CascadeChris
Posts: 2480
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 10:41 pm

Re: restore or delete

Post by CascadeChris » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:35 pm

Clear something up for me. If all of mitch's photos, which work for now even if the resolution isn't to his standards are removed, we will be missing a ton of photos that can still help people attribute their coins creating many Zombie or near zombie pages?
Alonzi VW 2.0!

crabscrape
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 10:38 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: restore or delete

Post by crabscrape » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:40 pm

I don't understand? if a person ask you not to do something and you do it with out a approval. Then you are in defiance of what someone asked you not to do! It doesn't matter if there is a mobile device or a old composite,
YOU, should respect that person wishes. Unclegidy, stated that he talked to JB last year on this and he thought that it was a WIN-WIN situation. This has been going on for sometime now. What to do! Is it going to be the right thing or is this going to come to a heart ache and bad feeling? I do know what it mean's to be pitched under a bus here. However, I can let by gone's be by gone's!!

User avatar
messydesk
Site Admin
Posts: 2329
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 1:57 am

Re: restore or delete

Post by messydesk » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:05 am

When someone uploads pictures to a site covered by a CC license, they cannot expect that the images will remain as they were uploaded forever. If, as UncleGildy and I have proposed, the originals are broken up into more usable, individual pictures, that's fair game, as each image contains the attribution to the person who took it. When the broken up images are uploaded, there is a place to put a comment "extracted from composite image by Mhomei" and that is sufficient. This is not a difficult task, but there is plenty to do, and both UncleGildy and I have said we'd support people that are interested in contributing useful content in this manner.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

Mhomei
Posts: 530
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 7:23 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: restore or delete

Post by Mhomei » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:26 pm

Wrong John
my work was posted under CC 2.0 you did not have my permission to apply the 4.0 license to it.
and you failed to remedy the situation after 30 notice.

everything Loren stated in regards to comp photos is correct and has been said before in this thread.

I appreciate the effort by those who are trying to be proactive, but please dont waist the time trying to
break apart the comps. any changes from VW1 need the appropriate license link and details of chages made to the original. destroying the original into a non usable and non readable text as original intended is not covererd by any any CC former or current.

I/WE have the originals as stated by Loren and have said they will be available
once this issue gets solved.

restore or delete please, if restore is chosen than I will be responsible for the getting those images compliant
with the new format as soon as the admins create a page and document in writing what the image requirements are
for the VW2 site.

User avatar
raynat3
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 1:44 am

Re: restore or delete

Post by raynat3 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:23 pm

I am about sick of this BS.

For all those attacking John, who gave you permission to make composites of other people’s photo work, and put text over the images or modify others images?

You seem ok with making changes to other folks work, yet complain that your work, some of which really is other people’s work, is not the same as it was prior to the move to this site.

Mhomei
Posts: 530
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 7:23 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: restore or delete

Post by Mhomei » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:46 pm

You did for yours Ray

Nate did for his and he learned do it himself
For the bulk of his

Lance did for his

Norm did for his

Pete did for his

Chuck for his

And the list goes on. But this is a moot point
That you bring up because all of those images are not affected by this.
T

User avatar
LorenAlbert
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 11:19 am
Contact:

Re: restore or delete

Post by LorenAlbert » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:42 pm

CascadeChris wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:35 pm
Clear something up for me. If all of mitch's photos, which work for now even if the resolution isn't to his standards are removed, we will be missing a ton of photos that can still help people attribute their coins creating many Zombie or near zombie pages?
Resolving this issue is not only about what may be lost from the past.
Years ago, Lance reprocessed LFCPs that I photographed. He warned that his modifications would continue for anything that I uploaded. Oddly, I was friendly with Lance. I understood his intent and his skills. Nonetheless, he was wrong. The photographer does not give up copyright.
To avoid further conflict, I quit contributing LFCPs to VW10. Eventually, to do my part to help ease a problem with the VW storage quota, I requested that all of my LFCPs be removed from VW. I was not willing to "dumb down" the LFCP photographs, but I understood the need to respect a storage quota. Besides, I knew that eventually my LFCPs would be reprocessed (copyright violation) or deleted anyway. In my case, unlike mhomei's case, the request to delete my LFCPs was granted within minutes.
Perhaps cell phone snapshots fulfill the vision of the SSDC. The modern world. That's fine.
Nonetheless, an unfavorable resolution of this current issue may decrement the future VW database by thousands of photographs.

User avatar
UncleGildy
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:47 am

Re: restore or delete

Post by UncleGildy » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:44 pm

From an outsider's point of view, that's pretty toxic Loren. I'm glad I don't know the back story. It almost sounds like some would like to see VAMWorld fail, and that's sad.

As many have said here already, (almost) everybody wants this put in the past so we can move forward.

Please consider this:
  • VAMWorld, in its current state, is a great resource, used by MANY people every day, and it is referenced on countless sites and in countless books.
Let's do whatever it takes here that keep it that way!

Here's our opportunity to move forward:
Option #A: If Mitch could please allow the splits/segmentation of his comps from the VW1 images (retaining full resolution), we'd have a path forward. A small group could tackle this over the next months-1year max. I'll volunteer to help.
Option #B: Unless I misunderstood (as I sometimes do), Mitch already offered to make the updates. If so, let's just do as he requests and "create a page and document in writing what the image requirements are for the VW2 site". What's on the current pages is good enough until the replacements are ready.

Please, let's work together. Again almost everybody wants this put in the past and move forward.

:idea: :!: Suggestion: Move this post to the Test Feedback Board, so the fun "what is this?" posts can thrive here.

User avatar
LorenAlbert
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 11:19 am
Contact:

Re: restore or delete

Post by LorenAlbert » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:10 pm

From an outsider's point of view, that's pretty toxic Loren. I'm glad I don't know the back story. It almost sounds like some would like to see VAMWorld fail, and that's sad.
I can't imagine that anyone truly wants to see VW fail. In fact, the reason that I bother with this thread is that I fear VW may fail. Or fail to grow. A failure of VW would be terrible for the hobby, terrible for the commercial interest, terrible for the Morgan, and terrible for me.
But there is a considerable amount of presumption regarding the pride some folks take in their photography. And a further presumption about who truly has leverage. The VW membership. I learned this more than four years ago. I created a venue where I can do my thing without concern for VW politics or VW limitations. Thus, I have no intellectual property on VW servers. This thread exemplifies why. Nonetheless, the success of VW is crucial to my/our success.
My overriding suggestion to moving forward is to honor Mitch's request and then move forward from there. Any claim that Mitch has forgone copyright of his creative work is wrong. More important than legal issues, the attitude expressed by this thread suggesting that any uploaded photograph is subject to reprocessing according to the wishes of the SSDC may pause anyone from uploading an image that reflects hard work. Cell phone snapshots and LR LFCPs shall be the future for VW. And frankly, it appears that this is the desired future for VW. Thus, the reticence to delete Mitch's photographs is more than curious. Mitch's photographs could be more easily replaced by new snapshots than by disrespecting MItch's directive.

Locked