What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

[vamnuke]

V22C discovered 2017; I don't recall any fanfare when the new suffix was assigned. No photo on the V22C page; can't really tell from description how it differs from photo of V22B. I guess the cracking is more further advanced as the die neared end of life, but can't figure out what the dividing line is between 22B & 22C.

[crabscrape]

Clayton,

The 22C has the die break by the left stars and ONE on the reverse. There was one for sale last week did you get it?

[vamnuke]

No, I did not buy the V22C. But I am looking for what differentiates the B form the C. If you look at the photo for the V22B, it has die breaks as the LVA plate coin shows. I know the C has t be near terminal, but don't know what die state is a C. It would be nice if a photo was added or someone posted a progression.

[impairedsquirrel]

When I sent what would become the 22B discovery piece to Leroy I actually sent it for the obverse star break... He said that wasn't listable, but the chips by the wing were. I'd like to see a 22C (or actually the discovery coin) to see how much different it is than my 22B DP.

[vamnuke]

Thanks, Squirrel! My thoughts exactly. My 22B matches the photo on the page.

[crabscrape]

I don't have the 22C, but I am sure there is a photo somewhere that can be posted that the group has. It should be in the supplement that Leroy did in 2018. This was the coin I was talking about, I hope someone can post it here 1878-8TF MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR ICG MS64 DEEP TONING! VALUED AT $425!
( 143099167761 )

[ChiefRet.]

Hope this helps.

LVA Plate 1

1878-p VAM-22C 001.jpg (173.68 KiB) Viewed 2920 times

LVA Plate 2

1878-p VAM-22C 002.jpg (158.51 KiB) Viewed 2920 times

[Mhomei]

Looks like a duplicate listing, Squirrell can you snap a shot of the ONE on your 22B coin?

[crabscrape]

Mr. Lane,

Thanks the photo matches the coin I looked at for sale to a tee. Break below the N in ONE.

Mitch might be the same as Rob coin but as he stated Leroy listed the break by the left wing tip on his coin. I think the listing for the break by the below N is somebody elses.

[vamsterdam]

This v22c looks just like my 22b.

[weth]

We were already talking about how we thought the VAM 22 should be delisted because it doesn't exist. Sounds like it would be helpful for someone (not me, I only have a couple examples) who has a wide range of VAM 22 die states to send them to LVA for the 22 kill as well as to better differentiate the 22A/22B/22C.

[vamnuke]

I suspect V22B & V22C are one and the same; albeit the V22 series die cracking is progressive, so I was hoping there was an a-ha difference between the 22B & 22C, but none in this thread. I have but a sole V22A & 22B in my set. I suspect the squirrel obv. die crack was seen as not VAM worthy, but maybe a slightly later die state was submitted that resulted in the 22C. That's why you don't see V130C2; the discovery coin is really a C3.

[LateDateMorganGuy]

Maybe I am off base here and don't really understand what the issue is. But from what I can tell, this is a classic die progression issue, or over zealous folks getting DCs without putting coins together to tell Leroy a story. There is always a gray area between die stages/states, which I have scorned for some time. Who is to say when is a A is a B, or a B a C, or vice versa. I have advocated the use of EDS, MDS, LDS in the past. But this suggestion has been ignored.

I also am known for doing die progression studies. They are cool when done with multiple coins in hand. When done in singleton coin fashion, they can lead to red-haired step-children.

[blh74]

I agree 100% with your suggestion. It shows us the reason the coins look different as the dies are worn. Considering the amount of coins struck by the dies in the hundred thousands.

[crabscrape]

If anybody wants to do a die progression on the Vam 22 die state, I have 2 that can use to do it by. I believe one will help in the progression as it does not have the break by the stars at all and has both breaks on the reverse. The way I see it should be listed A,C,B. Rob's coin along with the 22C looks to be the terminal die state.

[mark]

Following.. wondered where the 22C came from. I have a 22A in MS65 and MS60 and 22B but it's VG08 from my lowball set.

[78-sLongnock]

Hi Kids,
Not here to stir up to much conflicting winds ( lol, why not)But
Looking for additional help to determine what is the Difference between 1878 8 tf Vam 22A Vam 22B &
Vam 22C?
I’ve got the example below in hand so if need additional pic’s, just ask...

[crabscrape]

Pete, u can have my 2 examples, I am not seeing where you straighten this out with the photo's you are showing. The 22C was up for sale when I posted. Like the vam 60 I will keep it and go in hiding!! Hell!! maybe John R. will grade my 21 S Vam 1T will out all the confusion.

[78-sLongnock]

So hear is the Q?
If I’ve missed catching the key attribute,
What attribute should I photo of the coin in hand to show the difference between a Vam 22 B &
Vam 22C?
Thanks for the help In advance !

[crabscrape]

It just a die state in my opinion! But my opinion don't mean nothing. All I know is a coin the 22c was put up for auction when it was talked about before. Not trying to argue with you are anybody. I keep up with this stuff! Alan wants a die study and others want to sell coins. What to do in this vam community??