What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

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vamnuke
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What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by vamnuke » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:07 pm

V22C discovered 2017; I don't recall any fanfare when the new suffix was assigned. No photo on the V22C page; can't really tell from description how it differs from photo of V22B. I guess the cracking is more further advanced as the die neared end of life, but can't figure out what the dividing line is between 22B & 22C.

crabscrape
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by crabscrape » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:55 pm

Clayton,

The 22C has the die break by the left stars and ONE on the reverse. There was one for sale last week did you get it?

vamnuke
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by vamnuke » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:39 am

No, I did not buy the V22C. But I am looking for what differentiates the B form the C. If you look at the photo for the V22B, it has die breaks as the LVA plate coin shows. I know the C has t be near terminal, but don't know what die state is a C. It would be nice if a photo was added or someone posted a progression.

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impairedsquirrel
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by impairedsquirrel » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:35 am

When I sent what would become the 22B discovery piece to Leroy I actually sent it for the obverse star break... He said that wasn't listable, but the chips by the wing were. I'd like to see a 22C (or actually the discovery coin) to see how much different it is than my 22B DP.
I go totally NUTS for WOW! VAMs!! Or is that from WOW! VAMs?

vamnuke
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by vamnuke » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:18 pm

Thanks, Squirrel! My thoughts exactly. My 22B matches the photo on the page.

crabscrape
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by crabscrape » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:22 pm

I don't have the 22C, but I am sure there is a photo somewhere that can be posted that the group has. It should be in the supplement that Leroy did in 2018. This was the coin I was talking about, I hope someone can post it here 1878-8TF MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR ICG MS64 DEEP TONING! VALUED AT $425!
( 143099167761 )

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ChiefRet.
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by ChiefRet. » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:31 pm

Hope this helps.
1878-p VAM-22C 001.jpg
LVA Plate 1
1878-p VAM-22C 001.jpg (173.68 KiB) Viewed 2946 times
1878-p VAM-22C 002.jpg
LVA Plate 2
1878-p VAM-22C 002.jpg (158.51 KiB) Viewed 2946 times

Mhomei
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by Mhomei » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:20 pm

Looks like a duplicate listing, Squirrell can you snap a shot of the ONE on your 22B coin?

crabscrape
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by crabscrape » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:26 pm

Mr. Lane,

Thanks the photo matches the coin I looked at for sale to a tee. Break below the N in ONE.

Mitch might be the same as Rob coin but as he stated Leroy listed the break by the left wing tip on his coin. I think the listing for the break by the below N is somebody elses.

vamsterdam
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by vamsterdam » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:05 pm

This v22c looks just like my 22b.

weth
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by weth » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:26 pm

We were already talking about how we thought the VAM 22 should be delisted because it doesn't exist. Sounds like it would be helpful for someone (not me, I only have a couple examples) who has a wide range of VAM 22 die states to send them to LVA for the 22 kill as well as to better differentiate the 22A/22B/22C.

vamnuke
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by vamnuke » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:32 am

I suspect V22B & V22C are one and the same; albeit the V22 series die cracking is progressive, so I was hoping there was an a-ha difference between the 22B & 22C, but none in this thread. I have but a sole V22A & 22B in my set. I suspect the squirrel obv. die crack was seen as not VAM worthy, but maybe a slightly later die state was submitted that resulted in the 22C. That's why you don't see V130C2; the discovery coin is really a C3.

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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:49 am

Maybe I am off base here and don't really understand what the issue is. But from what I can tell, this is a classic die progression issue, or over zealous folks getting DCs without putting coins together to tell Leroy a story. There is always a gray area between die stages/states, which I have scorned for some time. Who is to say when is a A is a B, or a B a C, or vice versa. I have advocated the use of EDS, MDS, LDS in the past. But this suggestion has been ignored.

I also am known for doing die progression studies. They are cool when done with multiple coins in hand. When done in singleton coin fashion, they can lead to red-haired step-children.

blh74
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by blh74 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:57 am

I agree 100% with your suggestion. It shows us the reason the coins look different as the dies are worn. Considering the amount of coins struck by the dies in the hundred thousands.

crabscrape
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by crabscrape » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:51 pm

If anybody wants to do a die progression on the Vam 22 die state, I have 2 that can use to do it by. I believe one will help in the progression as it does not have the break by the stars at all and has both breaks on the reverse. The way I see it should be listed A,C,B. Rob's coin along with the 22C looks to be the terminal die state.

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mark
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by mark » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:31 am

Following.. wondered where the 22C came from. I have a 22A in MS65 and MS60 and 22B but it's VG08 from my lowball set.

78-sLongnock
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by 78-sLongnock » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:02 pm

Hi Kids,
Not here to stir up to much conflicting winds ( lol, why not)But
Looking for additional help to determine what is the Difference between 1878 8 tf Vam 22A Vam 22B &
Vam 22C?
I’ve got the example below in hand so if need additional pic’s, just ask...
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6FBA9DB7-DC71-4302-B719-753DDFFE0A7E.jpeg (263.98 KiB) Viewed 2551 times
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29AC9B71-DAED-4266-925D-801A98B03B30.jpeg (226.87 KiB) Viewed 2551 times
0CEAD5DA-C59D-4B96-952D-A8B580445AB6.jpeg
0CEAD5DA-C59D-4B96-952D-A8B580445AB6.jpeg (232.05 KiB) Viewed 2551 times
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438E6301-9BF2-4AE1-98EB-418B635888B3.jpeg (200.73 KiB) Viewed 2551 times

crabscrape
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by crabscrape » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:07 pm

Pete, u can have my 2 examples, I am not seeing where you straighten this out with the photo's you are showing. The 22C was up for sale when I posted. Like the vam 60 I will keep it and go in hiding!! Hell!! maybe John R. will grade my 21 S Vam 1T will out all the confusion.

78-sLongnock
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by 78-sLongnock » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:23 pm

So hear is the Q?
If I’ve missed catching the key attribute,
What attribute should I photo of the coin in hand to show the difference between a Vam 22 B &
Vam 22C?
Thanks for the help In advance !

crabscrape
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Re: What's the difference between 1878 8tf V22B & C?

Post by crabscrape » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:45 pm

It just a die state in my opinion! But my opinion don't mean nothing. All I know is a coin the 22c was put up for auction when it was talked about before. Not trying to argue with you are anybody. I keep up with this stuff! Alan wants a die study and others want to sell coins. What to do in this vam community??

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