Error OR Toning?...

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CascadeChris
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Error OR Toning?...

Post by CascadeChris » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:27 am

Hey guys, at first glance this looked like just a spot of solitary centralized toning but upon closer review it appears to be a struck-thru retained grease error. Shes in a regular 63 label. Also, notice the speckling throught the reverse. I'm thinking that's more retained "spittle-splatter" grease.. or maybe retained sawdust / wood specks.

What say you? Thanks 🤗

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CascadeChris
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by CascadeChris » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:27 am

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HawkeEye
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by HawkeEye » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:29 am

Good questions. The only grease errors I have encountered have been white not dark.
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CascadeChris
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by CascadeChris » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:33 am

HawkeEye wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:29 am
Good questions. The only grease errors I have encountered have been white not dark.
White? I dont think I've ever seen a white grease S/T, unless you are talking about the void with a slightly different "white" look in the divot, almost frost looking. This would be, if my theory is correct and I think I've ran across a couple like this in the past, where the grease was more gunky with fibers and the like and became trapped in the surface of the metal, hence retained.
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fogie
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by fogie » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:14 am

Corrosion - cancer - nasty.....

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HawkeEye
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by HawkeEye » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:38 pm

When we encountered this coin http://www.1881o.com/82980336_63pl_28.3.html we thought the white "stuff" at the bottom of the right wing was an anomaly. But then it shows up on just about every VAM 28.3 so it was obviously something on the die. I think Messydesk's best guess at the time was grease left on the die, but it has been a while. It also shows as a kind of halo effect around the eagle's head.

Same effect on this VAM 16 http://www.1881o.com/32277343_64dm_16.html

Then there is a whole series of VAM 54 http://www.1881o.com/12905541_62dm_54.html with a white swirled pattern that appears to be like the others but a bit more defined. Since this seems to only occur on PL/DMPL coins it appears to me to be either grease used when the coins were re-basined or some other foreign matter used in the process that hung around.

I usually think of dork spots coming from carbon, often left on the planchets from the drying process before striking. But those with more experience will have other thoughts I am sure. Often the dies ran a gauntlet as they were used in my opinion.
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HawkeEye
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by HawkeEye » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:26 pm

I should have also said that I have learned to preface all my VAM discussions with "Based on what we know right now!" That should have been the opening comment on the above post as someone may have a different set of facts or Messydesk may have changed his opinion over the years.
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vamsterdam
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by vamsterdam » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:59 pm

Looks like struck in slag, if it is not corrosion.

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CascadeChris
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by CascadeChris » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:56 pm

Thanks for the links Hawk!

Bri, I dont think its slag. It presents more like a retained gunky grease, no. I could be wrong. Curious what @vampicker and @messydesk think too 😁
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CascadeChris
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by CascadeChris » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:57 pm

Ya know, some of the "flecks" look like S/T retained small wood chips. I wonder if the black mark could have been a burnt wood chip from the drying and the burnt part retained in the metal while the chunk dropped off ??
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vampicker
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by vampicker » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:36 am

The area in question appears fully struck, so that's problematic for grease or slag or any other kind of strike thru. Think this happened post strike. Uggo toning that borders on environmental damage is my thinking here. The other marks really do look like sawdust
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messydesk
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by messydesk » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:21 am

Mylar tear toning.
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CascadeChris
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by CascadeChris » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:41 am

vampicker wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:36 am
The area in question appears fully struck, so that's problematic for grease or slag or any other kind of strike thru. Think this happened post strike. Uggo toning that borders on environmental damage is my thinking here. The other marks really do look like sawdust
Ill file this one under "when the obvious is staring you in the face and you're thinking waaay outside the box" lol. Thanks JR. I totally didn't even think about the fullness of the feathers.
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HawkeEye
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by HawkeEye » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:14 pm

messydesk wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:21 am
Mylar tear toning.
Had not thought of that one and if it was in an old flip would the flip have contributed to the toning or just given air a way in?
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colwillys
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by colwillys » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:46 pm

Could be impurities in the planchet and the toning popping its ugly head .

dave700x
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by dave700x » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:12 pm

Mylar tear toning
This was my thought as well.
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CascadeChris
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by CascadeChris » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:20 pm

It doesn't quite present like typical mylar tear toning to me. Perhaps it is though and it's just a slightly different manifestation.
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Re: Error OR Toning?...

Post by blh74 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:04 am

Mylar tear

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