1889 without VAM

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lhnumis1
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

1889 without VAM

Post by lhnumis1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:08 am

This piece does not appear to be among the 1889 VAMs. It seems that it may never acquire a VAM because its characteristics are not easily visible with a 10x loop at a coin show. It is one of the coins in my inventory & I thought it might still be of some interest…additional reverse images may be found in the follow-up post.
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV.jpg
Obverse
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV.jpg (56.76 KiB) Viewed 215 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV2.jpg
Thin raised line below right cotton boll.
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV2.jpg (32.3 KiB) Viewed 215 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV3.jpg
Raised line in lower left serif of 'B' in 'LIBERTY'.
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV3.jpg (15.63 KiB) Viewed 215 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV4.jpg
1 set left of 'normal'.
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV4.jpg (30.94 KiB) Viewed 215 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV5.jpg
Slanted date with high 9?
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV5.jpg (52.25 KiB) Viewed 215 times

lhnumis1
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: 1889 without VAM

Post by lhnumis1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:37 am

Additional images...
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV.jpg
Reverse
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV.jpg (61.02 KiB) Viewed 212 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV2.jpg
Middle & lower arrowheads slightly dbld.
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV2.jpg (36.93 KiB) Viewed 212 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV3.jpg
Upper arrow shaft trpld. Resolution inadequate but there when in hand.
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV3.jpg (29.1 KiB) Viewed 212 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV4.jpg
Upper arrowhead dbld slightly on upper side.
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV4.jpg (35.23 KiB) Viewed 212 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV5.jpg
'In god we trust' dbled & trpld. Most apparent @ 'trust'. Resolution inadequate but there when in hand.
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV5.jpg (12.69 KiB) Viewed 212 times

morganman
Posts: 1061
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:02 am

Re: 1889 without VAM

Post by morganman » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:18 am

FYI= All morgans have a attributable vam- Yours has several nice PUP'S pickup points
that lead to a vam designation. I did not research your PUP'S for specific vam, but
the date PUP'S along with DDR double die reverse will help narrow it down

Good Vamming
:|

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impairedsquirrel
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 2:42 pm
Location: Happy Valley, USA

Re: 1889 without VAM

Post by impairedsquirrel » Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:25 pm

FYI-All Morgans (and Peace dollars) ARE VAMs. VAMming, at its roots, is merely the identifying of different die classes. So, whether it be a super awesome VAM-23a, or a “lowly” VAM-1, your 1889 will fit into one class or another!😁
Of course, if you find attributable die features which aren’t currently cataloged, you may make a new spot on the list.😉
I go totally NUTS for WOW! VAMs!! Or is that from WOW! VAMs?

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andywoj00
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 3:22 pm
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Re: 1889 without VAM

Post by andywoj00 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:01 pm

My guess is one of these or a new listing....Andy

VAM- 1E Normal Left Date, Denticle Impressions Below Arrow Feathers
VAM- 1F Normal Left Date, Denticle Impressions Below Wreath Bow 
VAM-11 Normal Left Date, Doubled 18
VAM-20 Normal Left Date, Doubled Ear and Forehead (Hot 50 Morgan Vam)
VAM-24 Normal Left Date,  8 in Denticles, Doubled Ear, Polishing Lines in Cotton Bolls
VAM-27 Normal Left Date, Doubled Ear (listed Near Date)
VAM-30 Normal Left Date, Doubled Ear
VAM-33 Normal Left Slanted Date, Doubled Ear
VAM-36 Normal Left Date, Doubled Ear Right Inside
VAM-58 Normal Left Date, Doubled Ear (Possible duplication of VAM-27)

lhnumis1
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: 1889 without VAM

Post by lhnumis1 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:16 am

Many thanks to morganman, impairedsquirrel & andywoj00 for responding. I have examined once again all ‘normal left’ dates, with & without doubled ears with the following results:
VAM- 1E Normal Left Date, Denticle Impressions Below Arrow Feathers: The CIH exhibits no denticle impressions.

VAM- 1F Normal Left Date, Denticle Impressions Below Wreath Bow: The CIH exhibits no denticle impressions.

VAM-11 Normal Left Date, Doubled 18: The CIH exhibits no doubling of any numerals in the date.

VAM-20 Normal Left Date, Doubled Ear and Forehead (Hot 50 Morgan Vam): The CIH exhibits no doubling of the ear; it does exhibit a whisper of doubling on the forehead just above the eyelid (see image). All other die markers for VAM20 are absent from the CIH.

VAM-24 Normal Left Date, 8 in Denticles, Doubled Ear, Polishing Lines in Cotton Bolls: The CIH exhibits no 8 in the denticles, doubled ear or polishing lines in the cotton bolls.

VAM-27 Normal Left Date, Doubled Ear (listed Near Date): The CIH does not exhibit a Doubled ear. Additional die markers for VAM27 are absent for the CIH.

VAM-30 Normal Left Date, Doubled Ear: VAM30 is closest match to the CIH. It exhibits the correct date position & the thin line below the right cotton boll. It also exhibits a tiny die clash emerging from the neck-jaw junction (seen in the large coin images) not shown by my images (see additional image below).
However, inconsistencies exist:
VAM30-The doubling of the hair curls at the neck are to the left. The CIH has doubling of the hair curls at the neck to the right and a curl to left on the 2nd curl making sort of a tripled curl(see image below).
VAM30-The ear is doubled at inside right, inside upper left & outside bottom. The CIH does not exhibit a double ear (see images below).
VAM30-The lower arrow shaft is doubled. The CIH exhibits a tripled lower arrow shaft (see image below-limited by resolution but in hand tripled).
Also below, find additional images of the CIH not specifically indicated on the web page for VAM30.

VAM-33 Normal Left Slanted Date, Doubled Ear, closed 9 with slight doubling at the left inside of the upper loop & multiple clashes at the neck-jaw junction: The CIH exhibits no doubled ear, an open 9 with no doubling.

VAM-36 Normal Left Date, Doubled Ear Right Inside, doubled arrow feathers & a die chip on the outside right between the loops of the first 8. The CIH exhibits no doubled ear or doubled arrow feathers nor a die chip at the outside right of the first 8 between the loops.
VAM-58 Normal Left Date, Doubled Ear (Possible duplication of VAM-27). The same applies for VAM58 as for VAM27.

Apologies for the long windedness…trying to dot all the Is & cross all the Ts. Additional images in
follow-up post.
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV6.jpg
Tiny clash at the neck-jaw junction.
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV6.jpg (20.24 KiB) Viewed 155 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV7.jpg
Doubled & tripled hair curls @ neck.
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV7.jpg (33.28 KiB) Viewed 155 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV8.jpg
Ear not doubled view 1.
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV8.jpg (39.72 KiB) Viewed 155 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV9.jpg
Ear not doubled view 2.
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV9.jpg (41.7 KiB) Viewed 155 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV10.jpg
Small length of forehead slightly doubled above eyelid.
DOLLAR1889LOT447OBV10.jpg (32.99 KiB) Viewed 155 times

lhnumis1
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: 1889 without VAM

Post by lhnumis1 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:28 am

Additional images of CIH below.
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV6.jpg
Doubling inside ribbon loops & void. Doubling outside ribbon loops @ right.
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV6.jpg (29.43 KiB) Viewed 154 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV7.jpg
Lower arrow shaft. Resolution inadequate, but, in hand item is tripled.
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV7.jpg (31.33 KiB) Viewed 154 times
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV8.jpg
Four of the 6 leaves of the 5th leaf cluster in the right wreath are slightly doubled.
DOLLAR1889LOT447REV8.jpg (40.69 KiB) Viewed 154 times

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