1896-P VAM-5A obverse scratches?

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keilg1
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Location: Nottingham, UK

1896-P VAM-5A obverse scratches?

Post by keilg1 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:43 pm

Was going to post this in the 'No one ever posts picks anymore' link, but this contains an additional question. Yes, I recently picked this up at a local shop (and yes, buying Morgans in England!) and loved it outright for the doubled 1 and rust patches on the right wing. Looking at the obverse I saw what I thought was evidence of cleaning, but by every angle I can see they are die scratches, not PMD fun. Don't see any evidence of them on the 5A obverse FCP but that doesn't mean much.

Likely too small to list so I'm mostly curious if anyone else has seen them? And/or, do they look like PMD to more expert eyes?

Thanks in advance,
WIN_20221201_13_50_14_Pro.jpg
WIN_20221201_13_50_14_Pro.jpg (198.56 KiB) Viewed 572 times
WIN_20221201_13_55_30_Pro.jpg
WIN_20221201_13_55_30_Pro.jpg (188.53 KiB) Viewed 572 times

Zoomed out cap area:
WIN_20221201_13_58_25_Pro.jpg
WIN_20221201_13_58_25_Pro.jpg (159.05 KiB) Viewed 572 times

They continue past the cotton leaves and into the wheat...
WIN_20221201_14_37_33_Pro.jpg
WIN_20221201_14_37_33_Pro.jpg (167.26 KiB) Viewed 572 times


An attempted close up but the holder prevents me getting close enough for details and angling my microscope to pick up better shadowing...
WIN_20221201_14_38_01_Pro.jpg
WIN_20221201_14_38_01_Pro.jpg (151.29 KiB) Viewed 572 times

Appreciative of your input,

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messydesk
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Re: 1896-P VAM-5A obverse scratches?

Post by messydesk » Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:45 pm

Looks like die scratches in the cap. I imagine they are always on this die. I think I have a VAM 5 or 5A (they quite possibly are the same) somewhere. I'll have to find it and check. My inclination would be to revise the VAM 5 description to note the scratches unless I'm shown a VAM 5 without them.
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keilg1
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Re: 1896-P VAM-5A obverse scratches?

Post by keilg1 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:44 am

Embarassingly I do now see a clear mention of "Some heavy die polishing lines in Phrygian cap top" on the VAM-5A page.

Oy.

I'd not abuse anyone's graces any more but I'd recommend adding this coin to the 2023 top 12 coins to find list... Hardly any registered in SSDC but a wonderfully complex variety.

Cheers,

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SilverToken
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Re: 1896-P VAM-5A obverse scratches?

Post by SilverToken » Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:51 pm

Neat Double!

Part of me wishes that the initial descriptions on sort by date was more detailed, like "Extreme Doubled One", but another part really appreciates that it isn't.. it makes you hunt and learn. Coins like this 96 get put in the file cabinet in my head, a large mintage, not valuable, but worth a look, and pick.
When it's no longer fun, I think I'm done!

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messydesk
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Re: 1896-P VAM-5A obverse scratches?

Post by messydesk » Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:00 pm

SilverToken wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:51 pm
Neat Double!

Part of me wishes that the initial descriptions on sort by date was more detailed, like "Extreme Doubled One", but another part really appreciates that it isn't.. it makes you hunt and learn.
There's a "signal-to-noise ratio" optimization that is needed for titles and descriptions. Predictable text makes it easier to scan and formulate searches. Looking only at the picture, I searched the wiki for "1896-P" doubled crossbars and VAM 5 came right up (date in quotes because of the dash). Never underestimate the power of a well-constructed search.
Coins like this 96 get put in the file cabinet in my head, a large mintage, not valuable, but worth a look, and pick.
First time I saw one of these I decided I needed it, since it was pretty cool. I don't think it's as common as the various repunched 6 varieties, either. If you like repunched dates, 1896 is the date for you.
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keilg1
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Re: 1896-P VAM-5A obverse scratches?

Post by keilg1 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:46 am

Whatever was happening in Philly was being echoed in the Big Easy. I've only begun scratching the surface of P (including a VAM-4, VAM-19 and VAM-20) and O flavors (the western ones being mostly out of my price range), but have already picked up these two beauties:
96-O v9 and v19 fun.jpg
96-O v9 and v19 fun.jpg (61.78 KiB) Viewed 488 times

So many more to find and enjoy...

RogerB
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Re: 1896-P VAM-5A obverse scratches?

Post by RogerB » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:45 pm

The OP's bottom photo more closely resembles a small die crack - note the irregular edges and width. Just a thought.
Last edited by RogerB on Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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messydesk
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Re: 1896-P VAM-5A obverse scratches?

Post by messydesk » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:10 pm

keilg1 wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:46 am
Whatever was happening in Philly was being echoed in the Big Easy.
Remember that all dates were punched into dies in Philadelphia, so everyone got their share of wonky dates. 96-S has a few, too, including a misplaced date that was just listed a month ago (VAM 11).
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